Director of Public Prosecutions v Khaoula
[2015] VCC 1128
•18 August 2015
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL DIVISION
Case No. CR-15-00912
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| OMAR KHAOULA |
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JUDGE: | HER HONOUR JUDGE PULLEN | |
WHERE HELD: | Melbourne | |
DATE OF HEARING: | 10 August 2015 | |
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 18 August 2015 | |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Khaoula | |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2015] VCC 1128 | |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the Prosecution | Mr N. Cescato | Office of Public Prosecutions |
| For the Accused | Ms T Bolton | Vassis & Co |
HER HONOUR:
1 I have two certificates.
2 MS BOLTON: Yes unfortunately we weren’t able to get them from the prison until yesterday. There was a delay with their
3 HER HONOUR: So there’s two certificates handed to me today, Alcohol & Drug Program and Ice Effects Program. Thanks for that, so they can be exhibit 4.
4 Now I have a question for the prosecution. There was some issue last time about a demand for money versus the CCTV. The charge is steal, in charge 1, part of it says steal and certainly the CCTV, but I was told by counsel who appeared last time that there was a demand for money. Where’s that? I probably missed it. The charge of aggravated burglary with intent to steal therein and had with him etc, and it was put to me that there was money and the only person there is Ms Cefai, and I had a look at her statement at pages 17 to 19. There wasn’t a contested committal, as I understand it, and I didn’t read his record of interview, I think there’s only one statement from Ms Cefai. I’m just trying to find out where that came from, this demand for money.
5 MR CESCATO: Your Honour, I’m sorry I don’t have the brief with me, but you’re correct Ms Cefai was the only person there, so if it’s not in her statement I don’t think the Crown would be able to allege that that was actually …
6 HER HONOUR: Well, the thing is Ms Bolton didn’t say “it’s not there”. So is it there somewhere Ms Bolton.
7 MS BOLTON: No it’s not there, and it was discussed with counsel who appeared last time, and that was the issue, we maintain we didn’t make the demand for money.
8 HER HONOUR: I know you maintain you didn’t make a demand for money. The prosecutor said in reply to that, that there was sworn statement of Ms Cefai where that was referred to, and I had a look at it and I can’t see it, so I’m just wondering where that came from?
9 MR CESCATO: Well, your Honour I would have to it’s not in the evidence. So your Honour can disregard that.
10 HER HONOUR: Well certainly there’s no issue about the CCTV.
11 MR CESCATO: No, that’s definite.
12 HER HONOUR: I’ll just hand this down. I don’t want to be wrong about this because the prosecutor made a point of it, and I’d be surprised if the prosecutor … there’s a handwritten … just have a quick look at it to satisfy yourselves.
13 MR CESCATO: Thank you, your Honour.
14 HER HONOUR: I just don’t want to be wrong about it. Frankly, in the end whether it’s money and CCTV, or CCTV, it doesn’t make any difference to the sentence. I just need to be accurate about this.
15 MR CESCATO: Thank you your Honour.
16 HER HONOUR: There’s only one statement from Ms Cefai, I think?
17 MR CESCATO: Yes, your Honour. The only thing I can see your Honour, on page 22 …
18 HER HONOUR: What does it say, just read it out.
19 MR CESCATO: It says “He was in the lounge room for five minutes, he said he wanted money from my son but I told him my son has none.” So …
20 HER HONOUR: It’s not really a demand.
21 MR CESCATO: …. not sure that’s a demand.
22 HER HONOUR: Well I think …, I note your instructions you did not demand any money, the prosecution simply relied on the statement of Ms Cefai. I do not proceed on that basis. So does that make sense?
23 MR CESCATO: Yes your Honour.
24 MS BOLTON: Yes your Honour.
25 HER HONOUR: It seems to me that it is a demand from the son as opposed to the mother anyway, even if it was made, and I think it’s all a bit too doubtful. At this stage I don’t proceed on the basis of money but I certainly do in relation to CCTV. So I just get that out there, and make it clear and we will continue.
26 Omar Khaoula, you have pleaded guilty to one charge of aggravated burglary, one charge of possessing an unregistered general category handgun, one charge of being an unlicensed person storing a firearm or cartridge ammunition in an insecure manner, and one charge of handling stolen goods.
27 The maximum penalty applicable to the offence of aggravated burglary is 25 years’ imprisonment (Charge 1); possessing an unregistered category handgun, 600 penalty units or 7 years’ imprisonment (Charge 2); being an unlicensed person storing a firearm/cartridge ammunition in an insecure manner, 240 penalty units or 4 years’ imprisonment (Charge 3); and handling stolen goods, 15 years’ imprisonment (Charge 4).
28 You have also consented to a summary charge of possessing cartridge ammunition without a licence being dealt with by this Court and have pleaded guilty to it. The maximum penalty applicable to that offence is 40 penalty units.
29 It is not necessary for me to recount in great detail the facts of this matter as they are on transcript, the matter having been opened in some detail by the learned prosecutor, consistent with the Prosecution Opening (Exhibit A). I proceed to sentence you on the basis of the facts as summarised by the prosecutor and discussed during the course of your plea hearing. It is sufficient for present purposes to simply to say the facts in this case, in my opinion, are most serious and disturbing.
30 I turn to a brief summary of your offending. At the time of the offending you were 23 years of age and are 23 years of age at sentence. At the time of this offending you did not hold a firearms licence and there were no firearms registered to you, nor were you authorised to possess, carry or use cartridge ammunition.
31 The victim of your offending, Margaret Cefai, was 56 years of age. Her son, Brendan, aged 24, lived with her at an address in St Albans.
32 You and Brendan were known to each other. In January 2015 Brendan briefly employed you as an apprentice carpenter until a disagreement which ended that employment and friendship.
33 At approximately 2.15pm on 2 February 2015 you parked your car outside Margaret Cefai’s neighbour’s house and went to her home.
34 Ms Cefai was alone in the house in the kitchen when she heard a side gate being opened and saw you directly outside wearing black gloves, black balaclava/ski mask, grey shorts, a hoodie and a firearm tucked into the waistband of your shorts. You ran up the stairs of the patio area towards the door.
35 Ms Cefai screamed, locked the glass sliding door and ran away along an internal hallway. When she had almost reached the end of the hallway she heard two bangs which she believed to be gunshots. A glass sliding door was then shattered/smashed. I note the prosecution specifically does not allege that the bangs were gunshots. (Your instructions, I understood, were it was your fist that caused the damage).
36 You entered through the shattered glass sliding doorway and confronted the victim (Charge 1 aggravated burglary). Ms Cefai said “Don’t’ kill me, don’t kill me, please”. You stood about a metre from her and said, “I won’t kill you, if you don’t do anything stupid”. At that time Ms Cefai recognised your voice and eyes.
37 While shaking the firearm in front of Ms Cefai you said “Your son slept with my girlfriend and made her pregnant. I’m going to kill your son. Ring your son now, tell him the cops are here so he comes and I will kill him.” You then said “Don’t move, don’t do anything stupid”.
38 You then took the CCTV hard drive from the lounge room. At that time Ms Cefai told you her husband was on his way home. You remained in the lounge room for about five minutes. Before leaving, you threatened to kill Ms Cefai and her family if she contacted police and that you would return that night to kill her son.
39 I note your instructions you did not demand any money. The prosecution submitted you did, relying upon the sworn statement of Ms Cefai although I do not proceed on that basis and I discussed this with both counsel prior to handing down sentence today.
40 Ms Cefai contacted police who subsequently attended the house.
41 At about 8.25am on 3 February 2015, police executed a search warrant at your home where you were located. You cooperated with police and showed them the firearm you used in your offending (Charge 3).
42 The firearm was a Sturm Ruger make single six model general category handgun with a .22 magnum calibre. The firearm was unregistered (Charge 2).
43 The firearm was loaded and contained five live rounds and one empty shell. I note the prosecution does not allege the gun was loaded when you were at Ms Cefai’s home.
44 The police also located clothing worn by you during your offending, specifically black gloves, black balaclava/ski mask. Also located was a clear plastic box containing 26 rounds of .22 Remington magnum rimfire ammunition (able to be used in the seized firearm) in a safe in your bedroom (Summary Charge possess cartridge ammunition without a licence). A search of your car revealed stolen goods, specifically an Apple Mac laptop computer and recharger and another Apple Mac laptop computer (Charge 4). Also located in the car was a firearm protector holster able to be used with the firearm you used in your offending.
45 You were arrested, taken to the Sunshine police station and interviewed.
46 You denied the allegations and denied “shooting up” Brendan’s house.
47 You admitted the firearm was in your cupboard and made admissions to possessing the ammunition. You said you got the loaded firearm from a stranger/bloke on the streets. When you obtained it you had asked for a gun that would not be loud when discharged, and for it to be loaded. You also knew the gun was stolen (Charge 4).
48 You said you had the firearm as Brendan had threatened to kill your mother. You were “pretty sure” you had not fired the gun. You had tried on the balaclava that police found the night before, and had gloves to wear when you held the gun, although you said you had accidentally held the gun once without gloves.
49 You admitted the two laptops found in the car were stolen.
50 There are a number of aggravating aspects of your offending. There was a level of planning and your use of a disguise. A further aggravating feature was your vigilante-type/revenge behaviour in that you attended in response to apparently having been yourself assaulted by Brendan Cefai, in other words, as ‘payback’. That you had a firearm with you is not an aggravating feature as it forms part of Charge 1.
51 The victim of your offending has suffered considerably and I shall return to pass some remarks on that subject shortly.
52 You have pleaded guilty to these five charges and I take that fact into account in your favour. The community has, by your pleas of guilty, been spared the time and cost of a trial and witnesses have been spared the need to give evidence upon your trial. I note that your offending occurred on 2 and 3 February 2015, you were then arrested and remanded in custody with the matter resolving into a plea without the need for a contested committal, that is it resolved quickly.
53 I am also prepared to accept that your plea of guilty indicates some remorse for your offending, and note also you have expressed remorse for it to Ms Lechner.
54 As at 9 August 2015, you had been in custody for 188 days.
55 You have one prior court appearance on 14 March 2013 at Heidelberg Magistrates’ Court, where you appeared on a number of charges which, for the purpose of sentencing on the charges before me, I disregard.
56 I was told something of your personal circumstances and history contained within the written submissions prepared by your counsel, Ms Bolton (Exhibit 2), and in the report of Ms Carla Lechner, Psychologist, dated 25 July 2015.
57 Ms Lechner referred to your limited prior history and that the escalation in your offending coincided with the dramatic increase in your use of ice.
58 You had a history of strong family ties and a good work ethic. Your life, however, slowly unravelled when you were shot at age 16, and you developed post-traumatic stress disorder. You masked your anxiety and depression with hard work, but eventually “burnt out” and took ice as a means of staying awake at work and coping with your relationship problems. That, however, quickly developed in a substantial habit and your behaviour became increasingly erratic as a result. In custody you had detoxified. You were clinically depressed in mood and had not been able to access treatment until, as I was told by Ms Bolton, very recently.
59 Ms Lechner described your motivation as high and your rehabilitation prospects positive in light of your youth and limited history.
60 Ms Lechner provided details of your history and circumstances, repeating that you are 23 years of age and the second of four children.
61 At the time of your remand, you were living at home with your parents and a younger sibling.
62 You described having previously been in two long-term relationships, however those relationships had broken up “because of drugs and them being disrespect to my mum”. You do not have any dependants.
63 You were born in Australia of Lebanese heritage, and grew up in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne. You attend King Khalid Islamic School before transferring to Campbellfield Heights Primary School for Grades 2 to 6. You were an average student and you did not recall any social or behavioural problems. You attended Roxburgh Park Secondary College from Year 7 until partway through Year 10. It was at around that time you described the circumstances in which you were shot.
64 Ms Lechner said it appeared you then developed a range of symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. You were not able to return to school for some time and apparently saw a counsellor at the Moreland City Council.
65 You subsequently attended Fawkner Secondary College and completed Year 11. You then found work in mechanics through a family friend and left school at that stage.
66 You did a carpentry apprenticeship for 12 months then moved to factory work with Mc Connell Australia for better money, staying in that employment for over three years.
67 Your next employment was at Melbourne airport involved in traffic control and working double shifts every day.
68 You then returned to your apprenticeship and were currently, I was told, in your third year. I accept that your work history has been solid and consistent, albeit over a number of jobs.
69 Ms Lechner concluded you evidenced a range of symptoms of depression at interview, although there was no evidence of disordered thought in form or content or of perceptual abnormalities. You described having been a victim of assaults in drug related incidents, however without any long-term effects.
70 Ms Lechner referred to possible further investigation regarding your attendance at Northern Hospital around mid 2014.
71 Although you were not formally assessed by Ms Lechner, you impressed as being average/low average intelligence with the ability to reflect on the impact of your behaviour on yourself and others. Your drug use, she said undermined your judgement and reasoning skills. You used more and more drugs to cope with your low mood.
72 You described ongoing support from your family and told her you had severed ties with your previous social network. I note a number of your family members and I assume past possible friends also in court to support you at your plea hearing.
73 You said your ice use commenced about 18 months ago in the context of your employment. You denied use of any other illicit substances, apart from one occasion when you used marijuana.
74 You had been prescribed antidepressant medication about 18 months ago however had never filled the prescription.
75 Alcohol you said had never been a problem for you.
76 In Ms Lechner’s opinion you did not make any attempt to shirk your responsibility or minimise the seriousness of your offending before me, and nor could you.
77 At the time of this offending you said your use of ice had escalated and you were becoming increasingly paranoid. You got the gun to protect your family. You said you had been on ice for 12 days before your offending, which Ms Lechner said, should that be correct, would adversely affect your judgement, decision making and capacity for impulse inhibition.
78 You described your current circumstances on remand at the time of the riot and subsequent to that, which Ms Bolton described as having a salutary/sobering effect upon you.
79 Ms Lechner concluded you presented with symptoms of Stimulant Use Disorder and major depression. You would benefit from drug rehabilitation counselling and also counselling to address your mood disturbance.
80 You had expressed appropriate victim empathy.
81 Ms Bolton, in her written outline of submissions also addressed the background material from the report of Ms Lechner, providing further detail regarding the altercation at school and you subsequently being shot.
82 Ms Bolton also referred to your solid work history and turning to drugs.
83 She submitted that about 12 to 18 months prior to this offending, as a result of your long work hours and a relationship breakup, you were offered ice and began to use it. Your ice use escalated up until the time of this offending and you had become heavily addicted to ice.
84 Regarding your offending, Ms Bolton submitted you had not made any attempt to shy away from the serious nature of it. I discussed with Ms Bolton your attendance at the Cefai home on the day of this offending. She conceded your offending behaviour involved a number of aggravating features, use of a disguise, pre-planning and also vigilante/retributive type behaviour. She said you attended on this day because you had been assaulted by Brendan Cefai and you went to the house to remonstrate with him and, you said, to obtain CCTV footage of what you believed would show the original assault upon yourself.
85 Unfortunately you did not do the sensible thing after the assault by attending at a police station to report it, but rather took this into your own hands. Since being arrested for your offending you instructed you had not made a statement to police as you were concerned it would be dangerous for you.
86 Ms Bolton referred to the concern in Ms Lechner’s report that you had, on approximately four occasions in the past, collapsed and experienced numbness to your face, the cause yet to be diagnosed.
87 Whilst in custody you had not used ice.
88 Ms Bolton submitted your time in custody had been salutary. You found the recent prison riot frightening and sobering.
89 I discussed with Ms Bolton the current circumstances of your incarceration following the riot. Much of this appeared to be your self report in relation to specific details. However it is clear the prison was in lockdown for a significant period of time and that there was inconvenience to prisoners as a result. As I discussed with Ms Bolton, in my opinion, this does not mitigate your sentence. I accept however, that you have found it a frightening, sobering experience, being also conscious this is your first time in custody, with a very limited criminal history and at a relatively young age at 23.
90 While you are not a ‘young’ offender as defined by the Sentencing Act 1991, you nevertheless are 23 years of age and I am conscious of that when determining the appropriate sentence. Ms Bolton also urged, relevant to your rehabilitation prospects, was Ms Lechner’s conclusion you had some insight into the nexus between your mood state, drug use and offending. I hope you do.
91 Your rehabilitation is important as is your lack of significant criminal history, and such is referred to in R v Pratley[1], referred to by your counsel. I note also R v Mills[2], and a discussion of that authority in R v Lawrence[3], confirmed in Gosland & Anor v The Queen[4].
[1] [2013] VSC 298
[2] [1998] 4 VR 235
[3] (2004) 10 VR 125
[4] [2013] VSCA 269 [14]
92 Ms Bolton submitted she was not relying on Verdins[5] principles in relation to your depression, and I discussed this with her, as the transcript will reveal. I do however accept, and I do take into account, your depression as part of general sentencing principles. Your depression will make your time in custody more difficult than for a more mentally able prisoner.
[5] (2007) 16 VR 269
93 You have had the benefit of one attendance with a psychologist in custody. I urge you to continue to seek out such assistance, which will further aid your rehabilitation.
94 Ms Bolton submitted that you had undertaken courses in custody and certificates were to be provided to me subsequent to the plea hearing and prior to today's date. I note two certificates were handed to me today, an alcohol and drug program, and an ice effect program.
95 Also before me were two references. From Randi Yousha, a previous employer, undated. He described you as having an excellent work ethic. You had told him of this offending. It is out of character to the person he knew. There was an offer of employment upon your release.
96 Also a letter from your general practitioner, Dr Anthony Diamantaras, dated 2 August 2015. He had known you professionally and personally for over ten years. You had a fairly severe depressive illness in late 2013. You were hardworking with high moral values, and dedicated to your family. He described you as quietly spoken, patient and respectful. The charges before me were out of character.
97 Regarding your rehabilitation prospects, I am aware you have a very limited prior criminal history and, as I have said, I have disregarded those for the purposes of sentencing you today. However, your offending before me is extremely concerning. In my opinion, yours was very serious offending. I have some, albeit guarded, optimism regarding your rehabilitation prospects. However, your prospects for rehabilitation will improve greatly if you remain off ice or any other illicit drug, take any prescribed medication and undertake appropriate counselling. You have certainly jumped in at the deep end with this offending.
98 There was a Victim Impact Statement before me from Margaret Cefai, which was read into the transcript. Her statement is eloquent. It is difficult to do justice to her statement in these brief sentencing remarks. There is no doubt your offending has had a significant adverse impact upon her.
99 She said on 2 February 2015 her life changed forever. She found herself begging for her life and fearing for her son’s life. She now suffered with constant anxiety. A noise or dog barking caused her to shake and her heart palpitate.
100 She suffers with headaches and migraines on a very regular basis, making daily chores and activities difficult.
101 She suffers nightmares, cries in her sleep and often wakes in sweats. She was petrified of being at home alone. Her children would call her constantly to ensure she was all right. They often needed to stay with her or she would go to their homes.
102 She fears being in public and fears returning home after having been out. Her grandchildren were no longer left in her care at her home because of the fear something might happen.
103 She had been seeing a psychologist since March 2015 and was on prescribed medication to assist with sleeping. Her memories of the event were terrifying and constantly replayed in her mind.
104 There has also been an impact upon her financially, and a number of receipts were attached to her statement relevant to that.
105 She did not believe she would ever be able to erase this horrifying experience from her memory. Her life, she said, would never be the same.
106 There is also the need to consider the notion of social rehabilitation relevant to victims, see DPP v Toomey[6] and DPP v DJK[7].
[6] [2000] VSCA 90
[7] (2003) VSCA 109, paras 17 and 18
107 The effects upon a victim are a relevant sentencing consideration (see s.5 Sentencing Act 1991). I am conscious, however, I must not allow the effects upon a victim to swamp the sentencing process.
108 Ms Bolton’s primary submission was that the time you had already served in custody would be an appropriate disposition. Her secondary submission was that your time in custody together with a community correction order would be an appropriate disposition.
109 Her third submission, without abandoning either her primary and secondary submissions was that if imprisonment be the only appropriate disposition, that any imprisonment imposed should reflect a lengthy period on parole and short period in custody.
110 Addressing a community correction order, Ms Bolton referred to the decision of Boulton & Ors v R[8], in which the Court of Appeal referred to the need to rethink the conventional wisdom about whether prison is really the only option. I am also aware that Boulton has been considered in numerous cases since, including DPP v Maxfield[9], Alam v The Queen[10] and Hutchinson v The Queen[11].
[8] [2014] VSCA 342
[9] [2015] VSCA 95
[10] [2015] VSCA 48
[11] [2015] VSCA 115
111 As I discussed with Ms Bolton, however, I did not understand the decision in Boulton to mean the principles stated within s.5 Sentencing Act 1991 were no longer applicable. Nor did I understand the decision in Boulton to state that long established sentencing principles, relevant to particular offences now amounted to nought. Nor did I understand Boulton’s case to remove the instinctive synthesis when sentencing.
112 It has, of course, always been the case that a court must consider and reject all other sentencing dispositions before determining an actual term of imprisonment be served.
113 Regarding the offence of aggravated burglary, there have been a number of authorities which have discussed the very serious nature of it (see Anderson v The Queen[12], see also Hogarth[13]).
[12][2014] VSCA 255
[13] (2012 37 VR 658
114 In DPP v Meyers[14] the court referred to assessing the seriousness of a particular instance of aggravated burglary (see paragraph 47). The intent at the point of entry here being ‘intent to steal’. The court noted “The particular purpose which the offender has in mind at the point of entry is a significant feature going to the gravity of offence. Of course, the intent on entry is conceptually distinct from what occurs after entry, but the offender’s conduct once inside the premises will usually enable inferences to be drawn about the intent on entry."
[14] [2014] VSCA 314
115 Mr O’Halloran referred to the aggravating aspects of your offending and to DPP v Meyers[15].
[15] [2014] VSCA 314
116 In my opinion, to accede to Ms Bolton’s submission of time served or time served together with a community correction order would not appropriately reflect all matters relevant when sentencing you including, not only the gravity of your offending but all matters personal to you, and in mitigation of your sentence.
117 In my opinion, the only appropriate disposition is one that involves a term of imprisonment and a non-parole period.
118 As well as matters personal to you to which I have referred, including your prospects of rehabilitation as I find them to be, I must also take into account matters such as deterrence, especially general deterrence, which is of considerable importance in a case such as this.
119 There is also an element of specific deterrence required when sentencing you, although I note you have only appeared at court once before and not for offences similar to those before me.
120 I must also consider the question of protection of members of the community from you and bear in mind the likelihood of your re-offending. This troubles me, however my concerns will be allayed if you address your ice/illicit drug use and accept counselling/medication for depression.
121 I am called upon by the Sentencing Act 1991 to manifest the community’s denunciation of your conduct and generally to impose a just punishment.
122 I therefore sentence you as follows. I take into account principles of totality when sentencing.
123 On Charge 1, you are convicted and sentenced to 2 years and 6 months’ imprisonment.
124 On Charge 2, you are convicted and sentenced to 4 months’ imprisonment.
125 On Charge 3, you are convicted and sentenced to 2 months’ imprisonment.
126 On Charge 4, you are convicted and sentenced to 12 months’ imprisonment.
127 On the summary charge of possessing cartridge ammunition whilst not the holder of a licence, you are convicted and fined $250, stay of 3 months on that.
128 Charge 1 is the base sentence and I direct the following in relation to cumulation.
129 Two months of Charge 2 is to be served cumulatively upon Charge 1.
130 Seven days of Charge 3 is to be served cumulatively upon Charge 1.
131 Four months of Charge 4 is to be served cumulatively upon Charge 1.
132 For clarity, the orders for cumulation are upon each other and upon the base sentence.
133 That results in a total effective sentence of 3 years and 7 days' imprisonment, and I direct that you serve a period of 18 months before you are eligible for parole.
134 Pursuant to s6AAA Sentencing Act 1991, had you been found guilty of these offences following jury verdict, in other words if you had pleaded not guilty and been found guilty, I would have sentenced you to gaol for 5 years and direct that you serve 3 and a half years before being eligible for parole.
135 Pursuant to s18(4) Sentencing Act 1991, I declare you have spent 196 days in custody by way of pre-sentence detention, up to and including yesterday, 17 August 2015, and I direct that this be entered into the records of the Court. I would like that checked.
136 The prosecution made application for a Disposal Order and counsel on your behalf consented to the Order being made and I make the Order in the terms sought.
137 The prosecution also made application for a Forfeiture Order pursuant to s151 of the Firearms Act 1996. Counsel on your behalf consented to the Order being made, and I make the Order in the terms sought. I will just check that section number.
138 Are there any other orders? Do you want help with the maths? Is the PSD right?
139 MR CESCATO: The PSD's correct, Your Honour. I might - on the victim impact statement there's quite a few receipts attached.
140 HER HONOUR: That's correct.
141 MR CESCATO: I'm assuming that the victim has made an application through Victims of Crime for compensation but - - -
142 HER HONOUR: I don't know that.
143 MR CESCATO: No, well, I don't know that either. The Crown has six months from the date of conviction to make that application so I just flag that as a possibility.
144 HER HONOUR: Possibility, yes, all right.
145 MR CESCATO: I'll raise it with my learned friend if there is an issue and we will prefer to come to an agreement with a figure.
146 HER HONOUR: Absolutely.
147 MR CESCATO: If we can't, I guess we will have to come back to court.
148 HER HONOUR: That's fine, just let me know.
149 MR CESCATO: Thank you, Your Honour.
150 HER HONOUR: Make sure you get moving on it; don't expect me to remember this.
151 MR CESCATO: No, I won't, Your Honour.
152 HER HONOUR: All right, I'm just getting it out there so you don't think I'm going to go away and won't wonder about it for the next six months.
153 MR CESCATO: I appreciate that, Your Honour.
154 HER HONOUR: All right, now the outline of submissions were Exhibit 2 so that was correct. All right, I think that was all I needed to check. There was something else that's just escaped me - I'll sign the - - -
155 MR CESCATO: That was the forfeiture order under the Firearms Act, Your Honour.
156 HER HONOUR: Yes, 151, I think it is.
157 MR CESCATO: That's correct, Your Honour.
158 HER HONOUR: Excellent, I had that correct. Yes, the fine. As I said, stay of three months, work out in that time what's going to happen if anything, but I just let you - I've made a three-month stay, it's usually a month but I've given three to think about it.
159 MR CESCATO: Thank you, Your Honour.
160 HER HONOUR: Do I have - were the orders handed up?
161 MR CESCATO: No, they weren't, Your Honour, there was a bit of a mix up.
162 HER HONOUR: Email them to me, they are all consented to, make sure the defence agree with them and then I'll sign them later today.
163 MR CESCATO: I'll do that, Your Honour.
164 HER HONOUR: I'm in a trial at 10.30, so I can't do them right now.
165 MR CESCATO: Thank you, Your Honour.
166 HER HONOUR: Anything further?
167 MS BOLTON: Nothing, Your Honour.
168 HER HONOUR: All right, thank you very much for your assistance. All right, thank you, can you remove Mr Khaoular. Thank you very much.
169 MR CESCATO: Thank you, Your Honour.
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