Director of Public Prosecutions v Jacob
[2017] VCC 1697
•10 November 2017
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA AT MELBOURNE CRIMINAL DIVISION | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
Case No. CR-17-01308
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| SIMON JACOB |
---
JUDGE: | HER HONOUR JUDGE PULLEN | |
WHERE HELD: | Melbourne | |
DATE OF PLEA HEARING: | 31 October 2017 | |
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 10 November 2017 | |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Jacob | |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2017] VCC 1697 | |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
---
Subject:
Catchwords:
Legislation Cited:
Cases Cited:Marrah v R [2014] VSCA 119; R v Verdins & Ors (2007) 16 VR 269; R v Rout [2008] VSCA 87
Sentence:
---
APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the Prosecution | Ms P. Thorp | Office of Public Prosecutions |
| For the Accused | Mr M. Allen | David Barrese & Associates |
HER HONOUR:
1 Simon Jacob, you have pleaded guilty to one charge of kidnapping and one charge of robbery. The maximum penalty applicable to the offence of kidnapping is 25 years’ imprisonment, and to robbery 15 years’ imprisonment. These crimes arise out of events that occurred on 6 November 2016 and involved the victim of your offending, Wyatt Begg-Wright.
2 I turn then to a brief summary of your offending.
3 At the time of this offending you were 32 years of age and of no fixed abode. On 6 November 2016 you were captured on CCTV between 9.15pm and 10.05pm at the Transit Police Station in Docklands, where you appeared for an unrelated matter.
4 The complainant, Wyatt Begg-Wright, at the time of this incident was 20 years of age. He was travelling home from the Melbourne CBD, and had with him a “fire stick” which he had been using for a street performance. The fire stick was approximately 140 centimetres long, and made of light alloy.
5 After you left the Transit Police Station on 6 November at approximately 11.18 pm you boarded the Number 96 tram at the corner of Nicholson Parade and Princess Street, Fitzroy. Mr Begg-Wright was on that tram.
6 Mr Begg-Wright got off the tram at the corner of Nicholson Street and Tempany Street in Fitzroy. You followed him as he got off the tram and continued to follow him as he walked north onto Nicholson Street. Mr Begg-Wright was walking on the east side of Nicholson Street, with headphones over his ears, listening to music.
7 You approached Mr Begg-Wright and yelled something at him. Mr Begg-Wright took off his headphones, and you said “Empty your pockets.” Mr Begg-Wright was at this time holding his fire stick, but put it down and showed you his wallet and keys. You picked up the fire stick, and said “You’re not poor, you’ve got money, take me to the ATM or I’ll use a gun on you.” Mr Begg-Wright thought you were going to shoot him and was scared, although he did not see a gun.
8 Mr Begg-Wright and you walked together along Nicholson Street, you walking on the left side of Mr Begg-Wright. You touched Mr Begg-Wright on his left shoulder as you were walking, and told him about your daughter being raped by a Muslim, and also said you had had a violent life, and described how violent you could be.
9 You both walked to an ATM at the intersection of Scotchmer Street and Nicholson Street, that is, over approximately 550 metres from the time you had alighted from the tram.
10 You told Mr Begg-Wright to get all of his money out of the ATM. Mr Begg-Wright had about $750 in his account, and he withdrew $750. You then put down the fire stick and took the money from the ATM and walked away from Mr Begg-Wright, walking along Nicholson Street. Mr Begg-Wright was very scared. He walked to the Empress Hotel and called police.
11 On 13 December 2016 at approximately 12.15 pm, you were arrested by police. At the time of the arrest you were sitting on a bench in Church Street, Richmond, and appeared to be drug-affected. An ambulance attended and administered Narcan to you. You regained your composure and asked to urinate. You then stood behind a pole and dropped a tin onto the ground. That tin contained sixteen Xanax tablets and two foils of white residue.
12 You were taken to the Melbourne West Police Station, and at 2.38 pm that day you were assessed as not fit to be interviewed.
13 The next day, 14 December 2016, you were assessed as fit for interview, and interviewed at the Transit Police station. During the interview you were asked if you could recall 6 November, and you replied, “No, I don’t know” (Q/A 38). You were asked, “Is there any reason why you would not have a good memory of that day?”, and you replied, “Drug affected” (Q/A 39). You said: “It’d probably be heroin” (Q/A 40).
14 You identified yourself in the photographs on the tram (Q/A 74). You then stated, “I don’t believe it was me, so I don’t have any reason for it” (Q/A 146).
15 You were remanded in custody from the date of your arrest on 13 December 2016, and had been in custody as at your plea hearing for 322 days, up to and including 30 October 2017.
16 You have admitted a prior criminal history. Your criminal history in Victoria commenced with Magistrates’ Court hearings on 2 May 2002. There was a ‘break’ in your offending between 2005 and 2011 approximately, which Mr Allen, your counsel, described. You then appeared on a number of occasions from 5 August 2011 to 19 February 2016. You have also admitted a number of court appearances in Queensland from 23 May 2002 and 16 March 2004.
17 I note your offending before me on 6 November 2016 breached the Community Correction Order imposed on 19 February 2016, and such is an aggravating feature of this offending. You, of course, are not being sentenced for that breach, whether that occurs will or will not be dealt with at another time and another place.
18 A further aggravating feature were your threats to shoot Mr Begg-Wright if he did not comply. I stress, of course, it is not alleged you had a gun.
19 You have pleaded guilty to these offences, and you are entitled to have that taken into account in your favour, and I do so. The community has by your pleas of guilty been spared the time and cost of a trial, and witnesses, in particular Mr Begg-Wright, have been spared the need to give evidence upon your trial. I also accept that you entered your pleas of guilty to these charges at an early stage on 30 June 2017 following discussion between the prosecution and those representing you. A committal did not take place. The prosecution conceded the timing of your plea spared a contested trial, and the utilitarian benefit alone entitled you to an appreciable discount in sentence. I agree.
20 I am prepared to accept in your case that your plea of guilty indicates remorse for your offending. Your counsel urged I also accept you expressed remorse for your victim.
21 Your counsel, Mr Allen, provided a written outline of submissions and addressed those during the course of the plea hearing.
22 At the outset, Mr Allen conceded your offending was serious, and it was. It was accepted through Mr Allen that I would have no option but to sentence you to a term of imprisonment. He, however, submitted there were a number of matters which he addressed during the course of your plea hearing which would mitigate the sentence I impose.
23 Mr Allen conceded that although you were, at the time of this offending, heavily drug-affected and did not have any real memory of the incident, that did not excuse your offending. He was not relying on your drug use at the time as mitigatory, and that was an appropriate concession.
24 Turning to your offending behaviour, Mr Allen submitted that despite the serious nature of it, there were a number of matters which placed your offending at the lower end of the scale of offence seriousness, in particular, in relation to the offence of kidnapping. Mr Allen referred to the lack of actual violent physical force by you and that any physical contact, in particular, putting your hand on the shoulder of Mr Begg-Wright, was brief.
25 Mr Allen referred to the victim, Mr Begg-Wright, not being actually physically harmed and that despite your threat to use a gun, Mr Begg-Wright did not see any weapon.
26 Mr Allen submitted there was no humiliation, degradation or torture in your offending. Such features, he submitted, commonly arose in other examples of kidnapping, and were absent here. I am aware of that.
27 Mr Allen referred to the victim and you not being in a relationship of trust and that is, of course, so. However, I discussed with Mr Allen that the victim was simply a member of the public going about his business and entitled to feel safe in the community.
28 Mr Allen submitted your offending appeared to be opportunistic and unplanned. I accept that prior to you boarding that tram there was no plan in place regarding Mr Begg-Wright but you did, however, follow him off the tram.
29 Mr Allen submitted that the ‘taking or carrying away’ element of the offence of kidnapping was comparatively short in distance, over approximately 500 metres, and brief in duration. I am aware of instances of kidnapping of longer duration.
30 The ‘deprivation of liberty’ element of the offence was effected, he said, by a threat of harm to you - was a threat of harm rather than actual physical restraint. Mr Allen also urged the threat was over a relatively brief period of time. Nonetheless, I note, frightening for your victim.
31 Mr Allen submitted that the impact upon the victim, whilst acknowledging in his statement Mr Begg-Wright was scared, his recent Victim Impact Statement referred mostly to “a financial nature”.
32 Turning to the offence of robbery, Mr Allen submitted the financial value of the theft was relatively low, he conceded however, the financial impact on the victim was significant as it was effectively the victim’s entire savings as he was a student.
33 I was told details of your background and history. You were born and raised in Victoria and the youngest in a sibship of four.
34 Until you were 10 years of age, you and your brothers were raised by your mother, who was unemployed. You later believed she suffered from mental illness at the time you were with her.
35 There was financial stress on your mother raising four boys, which she found very difficult.
36 At times the children were placed in a boys’ home, and during those years your father was absent. You had been told your father was deceased when, in fact, he was alive.
37 At the age of 10 your mother died suddenly due to cancer and the Department of Human Services became involved.
38 For a short time you lived with your uncle, and then went to live with your father, who was in another relationship, his partner having children of her own. You described a traumatic life with your father consisting of physical abuse, an example, when he shot you in the hand with a gun and salt pellets. You were physically beaten and disciplined for minor things. The children were only permitted limited opportunity to attend school.
39 Mr Allen referred to you being a Ward of the State from the age of 11 until you became an adult and, during that time you lived a transient and unstable life between various foster homes and hostels. In that environment, you were exposed to criminal behaviour and drugs.
40 You also spent time at Turana Youth Training Centre and I note from submissions made by the prosecutor there may have been some earlier criminal Children’s Court matters for which you were dealt with but, of course, given the age of those matters, they are not before me and not considered by me. But as I understood it explained why you were at Turana.
41 Mr Allen referred to the report of Dr Cunningham, who noted that in your formative years you suffered a lack of structure, rules and direction (see report 12 October 2017, page 4).
42 Mr Allen relied upon your dysfunctional background as being relevant when sentencing and, of course, such is the case, consistent with authorities such as Marrah v R[1], which I discussed with Mr Allen.
[1] [2014] VSCA 119
43 Not surprisingly, as Mr Allen submitted, you attended numerous primary and secondary schools. You ultimately left school in Year 7 due to truancy and drug use.
44 Nevertheless, you managed to complete a number of courses when you were at Turana Youth Training Centre, including a general education course for adults at TAFE providing education equivalent to Year 10 level, and also a number of certificates, as outlined within Mr Allen’s submissions (paragraph 11).
45 Most recently, in your current period on remand, you completed a certificate course in construction, specifically, a Certificate III Construction Pathways. This was a two-year course, and I was told you had committed to it and had advanced quickly. That there were two modules remaining in the course and you were hoping to finish it in approximately two months’ time. Mr Allen submitted that spoke well for your rehabilitation.
46 Reference was made by Mr Allen in oral and written submissions to your good work history, despite your drug use. In the past three years, however, you had been unemployed. Prior to that, when 17 and living in Queensland, you had full-time employment for over two years, then upon returning to Melbourne employed full-time for several years as a baker, further years in landscaping, initially with your brother’s business and then with another business in Mornington.
47 You have been in two significant relationships, referred to in the report of Dr Cunningham. Both your partners had drug issues.
48 Turning to your mental health, Mr Allen submitted you had long-term mental health issues. You believed you were diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and Depression in your early teenage years and prescribed medication, however, you never engaged in any treatment. During the course of the plea hearing you provided further instructions to Mr Allen that your diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder and Depression occurred after you were injured with a baseball bat when you were approximately 16. You said as a result you attended a psychologist who diagnosed you with Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, Depression and Anxiety, and also a possible diagnosis of Acquired Brain Injury.
49 Dr Cunningham also referred to your current diagnosis of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. In custody you had been treated with Avanza, an antidepressant medication and found that beneficial.
50 Turning to your cognitive functioning, Mr Allen referred to Dr Cunningham’s conclusion you had a “verbal learning disorder”. I asked Mr Allen about this and the contents of the reports of Dr Cunningham. He was not relying upon such in mitigation of sentence, and not relying upon the principles in R v Verdins & Ors[2]. That was an appropriate concession on the material before me.
[2] (2007) 16 VR 269
51 Turning to your alcohol and drug use, Mr Allen submitted you had, in the past, a capacity to rehabilitate and that you ceased using drugs between the ages of 18 and 27 years.
52 You commenced Heroin use when 11, and by 12, I was told it was daily use. You relapsed when you were 26 or 27, and since that time had been heavily addicted to Heroin, the only ‘clean’ periods whilst in custody. You had never had any issues with alcohol, Heroin was your main drug use. Mr Allen submitted that without housing and stability in your life you were vulnerable to returning to drug use. Accommodation, Mr Allen submitted, would be important to your rehabilitation. I can understand that may well be so, and I urge you at every opportunity you have in custody, to seek assistance to find appropriate accommodation upon release. It is apparent you are aware of some of the agencies that can assist prisoners prior to release into the community and I urge you to seek them out because that will help you obtain your release. Having stability in your accommodation is also likely to assist your ability to rehabilitate. You also, however, need to address your drug use, which is clearly a very significant issue and relevant to your risk of re-offending.
53 Turning to your traumatic background, Mr Allen referred to Marrah v R[3] (paragraph 26), and set out all the matters relevant to your background and history, which he submitted amounted to a traumatic background relevant when sentencing you. Mr Allen ultimately submitted that applying the principles in Marrah, he accepted those factors did not excuse your offending, rather mitigated “to a moderate degree your moral culpability”. I agree to a moderate degree. I discussed Marrah and other cases relevant to dysfunctional background with your counsel, and the transcript will reveal that discussion.
[3] [2014] VSCA 119
54 Mr Allen submitted that the general chaos of your upbringing would explain why you became homeless, and why you began using drugs, providing some assistance in explaining the circumstances leading to your offending.
55 Mr Allen referred to a further statement by Dr Cunningham, that “exposure to further trauma in a prison environment would likely aggravate your own perceptions of threat and symptoms of trauma”. In that regard, I note that there had been two incidents I was told about of you being assaulted in prison. I accept such experiences would add to your trauma in the prison environment and aggravate your mental health. While I do not find the principles in Verdins to be applicable, I nevertheless, do take that into account consistent with general sentencing principles, and accept your time in custody at least to date, has been problematic for you in the ways described.
56 You are not, as I understand it, in protection but the authorities are aware of the two incidents that occurred in custody and I would hope your accommodation within the prison following sentence reflected the need to protect you from such in the future.
57 Mr Allen referred to your full-time work in the prison at Hopkins between 8.00 am and 4.00 pm.
58 Mr Allen referred to your early plea of guilty to this offending and submitted you were remorseful for it. Your plea of guilty had facilitated the course of justice by expediting these proceedings and avoiding witnesses needing to give evidence at a trial and also demonstrated some remorse by you.
59 Regarding your remorse for the victim, Mr Allen referred to the report of Dr Cunningham in which you “acknowledge that [you] could have caused the victim fear and distress” noting further, however, that your “expression of remorse [is] limited to your difficulty recalling your behaviour”.
60 Mr Allen submitted the two offences before me on the Indictment occurred in the same episode and submitted there should be total concurrency in the sentences imposed on both charges. I do not agree. There should, however in my opinion, be substantial concurrency.
61 Mr Allen referred to the difficulty in finding cases factually similar to this offending, and that is not surprising.
62 Mr Allen conceded there was the need for general deterrence, specific deterrence, just punishment and denunciation of your offending. While a term of imprisonment was the only appropriate disposition, he submitted the length of sentence could be moderated due to the matters relied upon by him in his written and oral submissions.
63 There was a psychological assessment prepared and a report written by Dr Aaron Cunningham, Forensic Psychologist, dated 12 October 2017, who assessed you at Hopkins Correctional Facility, and he provided some background information regarding you, much of which I was told by Mr Allen.
64 You ran away from your father’s home with your brother and lived in Cockatoo and Beaconsfield on a Guardianship Order, then separated from your brother when you lived in foster and residential care.
65 You apparently committed a burglary to facilitate being placed into the same hostel as your brother, and were placed in a residential unit with him, then living in friends’ homes and on the streets. You did not maintain stable accommodation.
66 You also reported, as I have said earlier, two to three significant relationships, relapsing into heroin use at the age of 27, and it was your mutual drug abuse between yourself and the mother of your children that caused the end of the relationship. Your partner lost custody of the children, and they were being raised by her parents.
67 You were then in another relationship with another woman, who had a bad methylamphetamine addiction.
68 You have screws in your arm as a result of being struck with a baseball bat when you were in your teens in the gang fight.
69 You were currently on 90 mg of methadone and Avanza. Also Avanza medication.
70 Having conducted a mental state assessment of you, Dr Cunningham concluded you presented with a diagnosis of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and hypervigilance.
71 Testing was administered to assess your level of cognitive functioning and your full-scale IQ was assessed at 86. Your overall thinking and reasoning skills were in the low average range, and you evidenced significant impairment in verbal reasoning relative to non-verbal reasoning.
72 Turning to his summary and opinion in that report, he concluded your drug abuse presented as the main contributor to this offending, and your experience of trauma and sexual assault likely contributed to your expression of anger when your thinking and reasoning was impaired by drug abuse.
73 You presented with protective factors that may reduce your risk and positively predict rehabilitation, in that you were motivated to engage with appropriate treatment, to gain stable accommodation and return to work.
74 Turning to the further report, which I have already referred to earlier, by Dr Cunningham, that one is specifically dated 22 October 2017, in which he addressed specific questions raised by your solicitors. In that report he confirmed you presented with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which affected your mental functioning through distressing recollections of prior trauma, depression, anxiety and paranoia.
75 In the opinion of Dr Cunningham, your drug use was partly motivated by numbing your emotional pain and coping with trauma. However, in his opinion, your drug abuse was the main contributor to your offence behaviour.
76 Dr Cunningham concluded it was likely you would continue to suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and would require a commitment to engage with years of treatment to improve that condition.
77 Dr Cunningham submitted you were motivated to engage with appropriate treatment, gain stable accommodation, return to work, and that your rehabilitation prospects and your risk of re-offending were dependent on your engagement with rehabilitative services, abstinence from drug use, and maintenance of stability through accommodation and employment. He thought you would likely require treatment support over a period of years.
78 Regarding your rehabilitation prospects, I have at best, guarded optimism. While I accept you were able to avoid drug use between the ages of 18 and 27, you nevertheless returned to heroin use following periods in custody. There was nothing to indicate that was likely to change in the future upon your release from this sentence. I also note your absence of drug treatment in the past. Having said that, one can only hope you do eventually reach the stage where you appreciate your drug use is going to end up leading to further offending by you and further terms of imprisonment.
79 There is also very little information before me, as I have said, regarding past attempts by you to address your drug use and that, I suggest, should be something you should focus on. Your rehabilitation prospects, I would hope, would also be enhanced by you having stable accommodation, and in that regard, I said previously I urge you to make enquiries at the prison to obtain assistance to try and find suitable accommodation. Of course, when sentencing you I must seek to maximise your chances of rehabilitation as they may be.
80 The prosecutor, Ms Thorp, also provided a written outline of submissions for sentence dated 30 October 2017, and addressed those during the course of the plea hearing.
81 Ms Thorp referred to the need for general deterrence when sentencing for these offences, referring to the victim being a random member of the public, in other words a soft target. Also the need for specific deterrence given you have multiple convictions for dishonesty (or theft) and violent offending. You had previously breached community correction orders and suspended sentences, and this offending also breached a current Community Correction Order imposed on 19 February 2016 and she submitted that that was an aggravating feature of your offending, and it is.
82 Regarding the offences of kidnapping and robbery, Ms Thorp submitted they were very serious offences and there was a need for general deterrence to deter others from committing these offences in the future.
83 Ms Thorp referred to an aggravating feature of your offending being the verbal threat made to the victim at the time.
84 Ms Thorp referred to your drug use at the time of this offending not reducing your moral culpability, and I note that Mr Allen did not suggest it did.
85 Ms Thorp referred to your traumatic background and conceded authorities such as Marrah were relevant, however, submitted that it would not lead to a substantial reduction, urging the link was more tenuous simply to explain your drug addiction. Mr Allen was not, I note, relying upon a substantial reduction, but rather moderate.
86 Ms Thorp, on behalf of the prosecution, conceded there would be substantial concurrency between Charges 1 and 2, and that such would be appropriate.
87 Ms Thorp tendered the SAC STAT for the offences of robbery, and SAC STAT Higher Courts Table of Data for kidnapping. I also briefly discussed with Ms Thorp and Mr Allen the chart handed to me by the prosecution during the course of the plea hearing relevant to summaries of sentences imposed for kidnapping. As I discussed with counsel, it is very difficult comparing cases factually, as facts vary enormously case to case, as do all matters in mitigation of sentence and personal to an offender. The significance and use of current sentencing practices was recently referred to in DPP v Dalgleish[4]. Current sentencing practice is not a controlling factor in the sentencing exercise and is not to be treated as determinative. It is only one factor to be taken into account in accordance with s.5(2) Sentencing Act 1991.
[4] [2017] HCA 41
88 Ms Thorp also referred me to the decision of R v Rout[5], which involved offences of kidnapping, false imprisonment, threat to kill, robbery and theft. The circumstances of that offending were briefly outlined within her written submissions (paragraph 11). As was conceded by Ms Thorp, there are a number of significant differences between that case and yours.
[5][2008] VSCA 87
89 Ultimately, it is a matter for me to determine the appropriate disposition, taking into account all relevant sentencing considerations, including not only the gravity of the offending, but matters personal to you and in mitigation of your sentence, to determine the appropriate disposition.
90 The prosecution submitted that due to the seriousness of your offending, the appropriate sentence was an immediate custodial sentence, that is, a head sentence with a non-parole period.
91 There was a victim impact statement from Wyatt Begg-Wright. Mr Begg-Wright has suffered significantly as a direct result of your offending, mostly in a financial way, by reference to the $750 he had saved. Despite that money apparently being replaced by the Commonwealth Bank he still suffered a great deal of stress being a student and not having much money in the first place.
92 The effects upon a victim are relevant sentencing considerations: see s.5 Sentencing Act 1991. I am of course conscious that I must not allow the effects upon a victim to swamp the sentencing process.
93 But I also note in the statement made by Mr Begg-Wright to police at the time of your offending, when you approached him and demanded that he empty his pockets he was scared. I have no doubt he was.
94 As well as those matters personal to you to which I referred, including your prospects of rehabilitation, I must also take into account such matters as deterrence, especially general deterrence, which is of considerable importance in a case such as this.
95 There is also a need for specific deterrence when sentencing you given your criminal history.
96 I must also consider the question of the protection of members of the community from you, and bear in mind the likelihood of your re‑offending.
97 I am called upon by the Sentencing Act to manifest the community’s denunciation of your conduct, and generally to impose a just punishment.
98 Turning to your sentence.
99 On charge 1, you are convicted and sentenced to 2 years and 6 months’ imprisonment.
100 On charge 2, you are convicted and sentenced to 18 months’ imprisonment.
101 Charge 1 is the base sentence, and I direct that 6 months of the sentence imposed on Charge 2 be served cumulatively upon the sentence imposed upon Charge 1.
102 That results in a total effective sentence of 3 years imprisonment, and I direct that you serve a period of 2 years before you are eligible for parole.
103 Pursuant to s.6AAA Sentencing Act 1991, had you been found guilty of these two offences following jury verdict, in other words if you had pleaded not guilty to these two charges and the jury had found you guilty of them, I would have sentenced you to a term of imprisonment of 6 years with a non-parole period of 4 years and 6 months.
104 Pursuant to s.18(4) Sentencing Act 1991, I declare you have spent 332 days in custody (up to and including yesterday, which was 9 November 2017) by way of pre-sentence detention and direct that be entered into the records of the court after I check that that is right with counsel.
105 As I understand it there were no further orders sought or no orders sought, is that so?
106 MR GOLISZEK: That is so, Your Honour.
107 HER HONOUR: What about the PSD, is that right?
108 MR GOLISZEK: That's right on my - - -
109 HER HONOUR: 332.
110 MR GOLISZEK: - - - calculation.
111 MR ALLEN: Yes, Your Honour.
112 HER HONOUR: So that's 332 days I declare, pursuant to s.18(4) as pre-sentence detention. It's a total of three years gaol, two years is your non-parole period and I've declared 332 days as part of time that's already been served relevant to that two year period. So that comes off the two years. So you've got about year, don't quote me on the maths and 20, 30 days, thereabouts, to go. All right?
113 OFFENDER: Thank you.
114 HER HONOUR: And no doubt your counsel or someone will be in touch with you and chat to you about it, is that right, Mr Allen?
115 MR ALLEN: Yes, certainly, Your Honour.
116 HER HONOUR: All right, thanks. Thank you very much.
117 HER HONOUR: Thanks.
- - -
0
4
0