Director of Public Prosecutions v Williams

[2014] VCC 217

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised
Not Restricted
Suitable for Publication

AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION

CR 13-02454 CR-13-02449

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

MICHAEL WILLIAMS
KAI COURBET

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JUDGE:	HIS HONOUR JUDGE MAIDMENT
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:	7 and 17 February 2014
DATE OF SENTENCE:	18 February 2014
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Williams & Anor
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2014] VCC 217

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:
Catchwords:
Legislation Cited:
Cases Cited:
Sentence:

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APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions	Ms E. Ruddle
For Accused Williams	Mr J. Behan
For Accused Courbet	Mr D. Dann

HIS HONOUR:

1Michael Williams and Kai Courbet, you have each pleaded guilty to an indictment charging you with an offence of armed robbery which took place on 4 August of last year, and you, Kai Courbet, have also pleaded guilty to an offence on the same indictment of assaulting the victim of the armed robbery.

2You, Kai Courbet, have admitted prior court appearances, although I note that none of those court appearances were in an adult court and none of them resulted in any conviction.

3You, Michael Williams, have no prior convictions.

4The offence of armed robbery carries a maximum term of imprisonment of 25 years' and the offence of common assault carries a maximum penalty of five years' imprisonment.

5The prosecution has tendered and relied upon a prosecution opening, which is Exhibit A on the plea.   That was read to the court yesterday.  I do not propose to repeat it save that I note that the armed robbery took place upon a soft target.  It was a cowardly attack which was attended, at least on your part Kai Courbet, by gratuitous violence.

6The victim has not made a Victim Impact Statement but it may reasonably be supposed that the events of that night will remain with him for a very long time, if not for the rest of his life.  I am bound to take into account the effect of this crime upon the victim and I think may reasonably infer that it would have had a substantial effect, quite apart from the physical injuries that he received.

7Turning to matters personal to each of you and dealing first with you, Kai Courbet.  Your counsel provided me with a summary of the arguments that he presented in a document which is Exhibit C1 on the plea hearing, together with a chronology of various events that are relevant to this matter.  He indicated that there was no issue taken with the facts set out in the prosecution summary of opening, but noted that as against you the prosecution did not rely upon assertions made by your co-accused, Mr Williams, as to the issue of duress upon him to take part in the offending conduct, which on his version of the facts came from both you and the co-offender Welsh.

8It is also not suggested that you, Kai Courbet, are criminally responsible for the use of the bottle by your co-accused Welsh.  Again, that was a particularly vicious act on his part and neither you nor Williams are criminally responsible for it.

9You are 18 years of age only, not far short of 19 now.  You were born in Melbourne.   Your parents were very young at the time that you were born and it seems you had a difficult upbringing.   I do not need to go into great detail about that, but there is no doubt that that has to some extent shaped some of the difficulties that you have had.

10You went to a number of different schools and you have had a number of different employments.   However I note that you commenced a roof tiling apprenticeship and were engaged in that for five months.   As I understand it, it is your hope that you will be able to return to that apprenticeship in due course.

11Tendered on your behalf were a number of certificates which indicate that you have used the time that you have been in custody to good effect.   That suggests that you are keen to do what you can to help yourself and to set yourself on a better course in life.  I suspect that is true.  Underscoring that point were a number of letters that have been tendered on your behalf.  One from your mother and one from your grandmother, Susan Lawrence.  One from your grandfather, Neil McKitrick and another from your aunt, Belinda Courbet.  I regard all of those letters as extremely well written and I have no doubt that they have been written from the heart and that they express genuine feelings about you, your good qualities and your prospects of settling down in the future.

12It seems, from what I can gather, that when you were living in Ashwood you were doing very well.  You were a leader.   You were captain of the football team.  Everything looked pretty good.  I am not sure exactly when your antisocial behaviour, if I can call it that, which is reflected in the court appearances that you have had, began.   It must have been when you were around about the 15 mark.   But it seems that the move from Ashwood to Mulgrave took you away from your former friends and support structures in the Ashwood area and got you into company that also got you into substance abuse.

13I am comfortably satisfied that your substance abuse has played a significant role in your antisocial behaviour and in particular in the commission of this offence.  Unfortunately conduct of this kind is all too common in people who are on ice and if you persist with taking ice in the future, or take it again - I see you shaking your head and I think you are genuine as you sit there now - then you can only expect to be back here again, probably for just as serious if not more serious offending conduct.

14I am impressed, I have to say, with the content of these letters.  They do suggest that you have a much better prospect of rehabilitation than I had thought was likely, having looked at your previous court appearances and the somewhat chequered employment history that you have had up to date.

15That, as I have pointed out already, is to be seen alongside the certificates that you have obtained, and whilst no doubt it helps pass the time when you are in custody, it is also, I think, reflective of the fact that you are keen upon improving yourself.

16It is pointed out that you pleaded guilty at the first reasonable opportunity and you are to be given credit for that.  It is certainly to be applauded in the sense that it saves the court the time and expense of a trial and the state the expense of the trial and of course the witnesses are spared the stress of having to attend court and give evidence about events that they no doubt would prefer not to have to give evidence about.  So you are entitled to credit for that.  You are also entitled to credit for the fact that as you have clearly, and I think genuinely, expressed to your relatives and I think probably to your girlfriend also, you are, I think, genuinely remorseful for the offending.  Once the fog has lifted and the effect of the ice has lifted then in the cold light of day I think you can see this offending conduct for what it is and I accept that you are genuinely remorseful.

17You are, of course, still a very young man and this offence was committed when you were 18.  You are still 18 years of age and as has been pointed out to me the courts have made it very clear that rehabilitation is a very significant, probably the most significant, sentencing consideration for young people.  That has to be balanced against the seriousness of the offence of course and this is a very serious offence.

18You have limited court appearances, although they do not do any credit, and I think that this seems to be a progression towards this offending conduct.  As I have already said, and acknowledged, I think you do have good prospects of rehabilitation, provided you can stay away from illicit substances, in particular ice.

19I sentenced your co-offender, Welsh to four years' imprisonment for the armed robbery offence.   That was in circumstances where he was facing the even more serious offence of culpable driving and other offences associated with that particular evening, including the assault on the victim of the armed robbery with the smashing the bottle over his head.  I must consider the question of parity, which means giving a just sentence to you having regard to the sentence I have already passed on him.  It would be unfair, would it not, to pass a sentence that was wholly out of kilter with the sentence that was passed on him.  However, he does have, as has been pointed out to me, a much worse criminal record than you do.  He was 22 years of age at the time I sentenced him and therefore I think the sentence of four years' imprisonment for the armed robbery, and also I think a separate sentence for which he receives some extra time for the assault, was entirely justified in his case.

20Ordinarily offending of this kind should attract a sentence in the order of four years or more in an adult prison.   But you are 18 years of age and it was urged upon me that I should look to the alternative of a Youth Justice Centre Order in your case.  For that reason I sought and obtained a report which was provided to me the other day and it assesses you as being suitable for a Youth Justice Centre Order.  It also, I think fairly, notes that, at least to the officers who carried out the assessment, you appeared to have good prospects of rehabilitation and they noted some of the points that I have already drawn the court's attention to.

21I gave careful thought to whether it was nevertheless necessary to impose a term of imprisonment upon you.   But I have concluded that it is open to me to impose a Youth Justice Centre Order and I will make that order in due course.  I also had to consider the length of the order that I made.  I note that you have already spent 167 days now, pre-sentence detention in an adult prison.   Although it seems that you have made the best possible use of that time it is to be taken into account, I think, in determining an appropriate sentence.  You will of course get credit for the time you have already served but I started off from the point of view that I would be failing my duty if I did not give you the maximum of three years.   But I am persuaded that, particularly with your reasonable prospects of rehabilitation, that I can reduce that somewhat, and I propose to make the order for two and a half years.  It may not seem a lot but that extra six months, or the reduction at least of six months, I think does reflect your good prospects of rehabilitation.  I will not pronounce the order just now because there are other orders I need to make as well at the same time, but I just indicate to you what I have in mind.

22Now, turning to you, Michael Williams.  As I already indicated you have no prior convictions.   You are I think 19 years of age now, 18 at the time of the offending conduct.  Still a very young man.  Your counsel provided me with an outline of submissions, which was Exhibit W1.  Also, a summary of the charges, a police summary of the charges, which is one drawn up by the police investigators and includes some assessment by them of what took place that really goes a little bit beyond that which was in the prosecution summary.  It is urged upon me that I should look to the extra information in that document in order to reach a conclusion about the facts relevant to sentence in your particular case.

23The essence of the difference, if I can put it that way, is that you claim that you were subjected to persuasion, if I can use the most gentle term, from your co-offenders to take part in the offending conduct, and you claim that you would not have gone along with it but for that persuasion.  It is true that it would seem that you were not on ice that night, nor intoxicated.   But it is worthy of note that you reported yourself to the police, essentially, three days afterwards and engaged in an interview with the police in which you described what you claimed to be your role in the offending conduct and the role of your co-offenders.  I am told by the prosecution that had it not been for that the police would probably not have had the evidence necessary to bring the prosecution against possibly any of the offenders, including yourself.

24You are clearly to be given credit for that.   But the other impact of that, of course, is that it has resulted - and again I use this in a neutral way - in you being fearful of the response of others towards your spilling the beans.  Those matters are discussed at some length in the report of the psychologist, Warren Simmons, which is Exhibit W3.  He notes your history at school.   It seems that you were the subject of considerable bullying and violent attention at school, and you adopted, a strategy of submission in order to deal with that.

25There are a number of aspects of the report from Warren Simmons which suggest that over time you have developed symptoms of anxiety and depression.  It is apparently the case that you have been suicidal, on and off, for quite a significant period of time.   There are aspects of your personality which have made life difficult for you on occasions, and I suspect that that may continue for some time.  His report though I think does support the conclusion that I should find, at least on the balance of probabilities, that so far as the facts relevant to your sentencing are concerned, there was an element of coercion applied to you in participating in the offending conduct, otherwise you are unlikely to have participated.  Certainly I am satisfied that left to your own devices and uninfluenced by others you would not have engaged in this kind of conduct.

26I do note though and I think it is not to your credit that you seem to have participated in it fully.   You did not exert any gratuitous violence on the victim in the same way as your co-offenders did but you threatened him with a knife and that is not to your credit.  So whether and to what extent that was because of the coercion you felt or whether by then you had decided that you were going to be a participant and a full participant in the offence is not clear. 

27But I am satisfied that had it not been for the influence of others you would not have participated in this offence.  That is supported I think by the fact that you have no prior convictions and it is supported by the material contained in the report from Warren Simmons and also from the letter of the clinical psychologist that you saw after you had been subjected to physical violence at school, from Bilyana Bosevski.

28I have also been provided by your counsel with certificates to show that you have, since leaving school, pursued further education and have done quite well despite the difficulties you have had with your schooling in your further education.  I have also been provided with a letter from your parents and with a letter from your aunt and a letter from your grandmother and a letter from your uncle.  All of those speak with one voice and they support the proposition that you have had some difficulties in your life up to now and that this offending conduct is out of character.

29Mr Simmons, going back to his report for a moment, suggests that you should obtain a referral to a psychologist to assist you with some of the issues that he identified.  They being long standing difficulties and without intervention it is likely that you will continue to experience the same problems in the future and you may find yourself therefore in a situation not dissimilar from that which you found yourself in on the night of this offending conduct.

30It seems to me that, having regard to the fact that you were a participant in this offending conduct and despite some of the matters that were drawn to my attention previously that it was necessary to consider a custodial sentence in your case, and given your age, to consider a Youth Justice Centre Order.   For that reason I obtained a report which indicates that in the view of the author of the report, you are suitable for a Youth Justice Centre Order. However, there are some risks attached to that which are noted in the report and without going into it I am persuaded that it is open to me to look to options other than a custodial sentence in your case.

31In respect of this sentencing exercise in relation to both offenders I am required to consider the extent to which the court needs to express its denunciation of the conduct in which you engaged, also to punish each of you adequately for your offending conduct, to pay proper regard to the principle of individual deterrence, that is deterring each of you from doing it again or anything like it again, general deterrence which is deterring other people from doing something like that if they were minded to do so, but at the same time, and importantly for people of your age, to balance that against the need to facilitate your rehabilitation.  And as I have indicated that clearly is a very significant, if not the most significant, of the sentencing considerations in this case.

32It seems to me that you Williams have good prospects of rehabilitation.  I take the view that with the supports that you have from your family and will no doubt continue to have and having learnt a pretty stern lesson from your arrest and your court appearance in relation to these matters that it is unlikely you will offend again.

33So what is the alternative in your case to a custodial sentence?  Well parliament has made it clear in bringing in the legislation that supports a Community Correction Order that that order is to be regarded as an alternative to imprisonment in appropriate cases, even where the offences are serious, and there is no doubt the offence to which you have pleaded guilty is a serious offence.  However it seems to me that your rehabilitation requires consideration of a Community Correction Order.

34I gave some thought to whether it was necessary to obtain an assessment so that the question of providing you with some treatment for your personality, psychological issues, should be included in such an order.  I have concluded that there is not sufficient risk of you re-offending that that aspect of the matter is necessary or justified and I do not propose to seek that assessment.

35You have pleaded guilty at the earliest reasonable opportunity and you have expressed remorse for your conduct, very clearly, to the police, and the prosecution accept that you are genuinely remorseful.  You as with your co-offender Kai Courbet pleaded guilty at the earliest reasonable opportunity and you are entitled to credit for that.  But also the prosecution noted that you deserve substantial credit for the assistance that you gave to the police by presenting yourself to them and making a full confession, which they have accepted as being accurate, of the events of 4 August of last year.  As Ms Ruddle put it on behalf of the prosecution, that information that you provided was of high value.   I must give you credit in imposing sentence in the provision of that information to the police.

36Having regard to all of that I propose in your case to make a Community Correction Order but you have to consent to that.  The order will simply require you to carry out 280 hours of unpaid community work.  Do you consent to being placed on an order of that kind?  All right.

37Well now I then proceed to impose sentence on each of you.  So would you please stand?

38Kai Courbet for the two offences to which you pleaded guilty on this indictment I sentence you to a Youth Justice Centre Order for a period of two and a half years and I convict you on each of those offences.  I declare that 167 days of pre-sentence detention is to be reckoned as time served under that order and deducted from the sentence that you will actually have to serve.

39In your case Williams I order that you be the subject of a Community Correction Order for a period of two years, which commences today, and will expire in two years' time.  The only condition I attach to that beyond the core conditions is that you complete 280 hours of unpaid community work.   But there are a number of core conditions and I will read those out to you in due course but the most important one of those is that during the period of the order you do not commit any other offence punishable by imprisonment.  If you do you will be brought back to this court and consideration will be given to not only sentencing you for the breach of the order but also to re-sentencing you for this offence and if that happens then you can bet that the sentence will be a custodial sentence, do you follow?

40So it is a bit like having a suspended sentence hanging over your head. If you do breach that order by committing a further offence you will be up for punishment for the further offence, up for punishment for the breach, which is up to three months' imprisonment, and thirdly, re-sentencing on this which will almost certainly result in a custodial sentence.  There are some other core conditions which I will go through in a minute once the order is drawn up.

41You may take a seat for the time being whilst that is being done.  Now there are two other matters I need to deal with in your case Kai Courbet.  But for your pleas of guilty I would have sentenced you to imprisonment for four years with a non-parole period of two and a half years.

42In your case Williams I would have imposed a sentence of three years with a non-parole period of two years.  If you had pleaded not guilty to these offences and been convicted.

43Also, I have been asked to make orders for forensic procedure in respect of each of you, which would require you to provide a scraping from the mouth, a sample of your DNA by scraping from the mouth, when requested to do so by an authorised police officer.

44In your case Williams that would be done by your reporting to the officer in charge at the Springvale Police Station during the period of four weeks, after today, and submitting yourself to that testing.

45If, when requested, this applies to both of you, in your case Courbet that can be done whilst your serving your sentence at the Youth Justice Centre, when you are requested by the authorised officer to provide the scraping if you do so all well and good but if you fail or refuse to do so then the authorised does have the power to take a blood sample from you and to use reasonable force to obtain that and I am sure you will not put them to that trouble.

46Now I have only got one copy of the order here.

47MS RUDDLE:  I've got re-dated ones - a non-custody one for Mr Williams and a custody one for Mr Courbet, three copies of each Your Honour.

48HIS HONOUR:  Yes all right well I'll - I'll sign those ones in the amended form then.  Yes.  Which Community Correction Centre would it be Mr?

49MR BEHAN:  I may just obtain some instructions Your Honour.

50HIS HONOUR:  Yes, yes.

51MR BEHAN:  I understand it resides in the Mulgrave area.

52HIS HONOUR:  Yes.

53MR BEHAN:  I'm not sure on what the closest is.

54HIS HONOUR:  Yes.  All right well just check for me would you?

55MR BEHAN:  If Your Honour will permit me to have a moment?

56HIS HONOUR:  Yes.

57MR BEHAN:  I just need to determine which one would be the closest out of Springvale or Dandenong.  Dandenong's still a half an hour bus ride so.

58HIS HONOUR:  I see, all right.  Well we've got in the - the draft order for the reporting to - for the forensic sample we've got Springvale Police Station.  I rather assume that might be that for the - but it's up to you to determine.

59MR BEHAN:  I'm told it's either Dandenong or Berwick Your Honour.

60HIS HONOUR:  Dandenong or Berwick.

61MR BEHAN:  Dandenong would be the closest in that case.

62HIS HONOUR:  We'll just - all right.  Well Dandenong it is, yes.

63MR BEHAN:  Thank you Your Honour.

64HIS HONOUR:  Mr Dann your client may wish to have his certificates back.

65MR DANN:  Yes thank you.

66HIS HONOUR:  Yes I'll provide those back.

67MS RUDDLE:  Your Honour ‑ ‑ ‑ 

68HIS HONOUR:  Yes?

69MS RUDDLE:  ‑ ‑ ‑ an issue arises in regards to the sentence of Mr Courbet.

70HIS HONOUR:  Yes.

71MS RUDDLE:  Your Honour declared an aggregate sentence in relation to the two offences.

72HIS HONOUR:  I think that's the way it's usually expressed with Youth Justice Centre isn't it?

73MS RUDDLE: I'm not sure that that is the case Your Honour because s.9 only refers to the court - sorry s.9 of the Sentencing Act only provides that the court has the power to give an aggregate sentence of imprisonment. It doesn't pick up the language of detention required by s.32 through 35. It is the - it is the fact that sentences are to be concurrent unless otherwise directed so unless I'm wrong in my reading of s.9 I can't see that Your Honour has the power to do an aggregate sentence merely concurrent sentences.

74HIS HONOUR:  You look at s.32 and 33 it really implies doesn't it that - it certainly doesn't require a separate order to be made in respect of each offence.  "If a sentence involving confinement is justified in respect of a young offender, not an offence, a court may make a Youth Justice Centre Order if it has received pre-sentence report and believes," et cetera.

75MS RUDDLE: Yes Your Honour but in my submission the power for an aggregate sentence derives directly from s.9 and it ‑ ‑ ‑

76HIS HONOUR:  Well, the power to make an aggregate sentence in respect of term of imprisonment but I must say my recollection is that I've always made aggregate sentences in respect of Youth Justice Centre Orders but so I propose to make one order but let me make this clear that if I was required to make separate orders I would make the order of two and half years on Charge 1 and six months on Charge 2.

77MS RUDDLE:  Yes Your Honour and ‑ ‑ ‑ -

78HIS HONOUR:  And that they would be concurrent, yes.

79MS RUDDLE:  ‑ ‑ ‑ in line with s.33 wholly concurrent.  Thank you Your Honour.  In - there was one further ‑ ‑ ‑ 

80HIS HONOUR:  Do you have a view about that Mr Dann?

81MR DANN: Yes I was just concerned, I think this issue may have been considered in a case of a Director's Appeal involving several children sentenced in the Children's Court. It's DPP v MN, DPP v JC, DPP v JW [2009] VSCA 312.

82HIS HONOUR:  Thank you.

83MR DANN:  There's a discussion about the language of aggregate period that's used elsewhere in the Act.  It says that - I'll just read a couple of paragraphs it won't take long.

84HIS HONOUR:  Yes thank you.

85MR DANN: Paragraph 15, "It is clear on the face of the 1973 Act that the term aggregate period had the specific meaning given to it by s.26(1)(f)(2). It was a defined term meaning a single period of detention specified by the Children's Court in respect to two or more offences. The modern equivalent is the aggregate sentence of imprisonment which may be imposed on adult offenders under the Sentencing Act, s.9," which you've just been taken to. "Section 9 provides as follows," and then it's set out the language dealing with aggregate sentences then going back to paragraph 15 of this decision, "The Children's Court has no such power as counsel for all respondents acknowledged." So it seems that ‑ ‑ ‑

86HIS HONOUR:  It would be prudent at least to ‑ ‑ ‑ 

87MR DANN:  ‑ ‑ ‑ Your Honour would be required ‑ ‑ ‑ 

88HIS HONOUR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ impose separate sentences.

89MR DANN:  Yes.  And make ‑ ‑ ‑ 

90HIS HONOUR:  All right.  Well I'll make it a separate sentence then.

91MR DANN:  If Your Honour pleases.

92HIS HONOUR:  In respect of Charge 1 I impose the period of two and a half years and in respect of Charge 2 six months, each of those to be concurrent with one another.  Total effective sentence is therefore two and a half years.

93MS RUDDLE:  If Your Honour pleases.  There was a further matter that I thought I best raise with the court.

94HIS HONOUR:  Yes.

95MS RUDDLE:  Your Honour declared the time that Mr Courbet has spent in adult prison as reckoned as time served.  Perhaps it would be wise if it's listed as being time served pursuant to s.35?  There can just be issues ‑ ‑ ‑ 

96HIS HONOUR:  I see.

97MS RUDDLE:  ‑ ‑ ‑ with ‑ ‑ ‑ 

98HIS HONOUR:  All right, okay well.

99MS RUDDLE:  ‑ ‑ ‑ with - with recording of that - of that.

100HIS HONOUR:  Now that's - that's probably sensible too ‑ ‑ ‑ 

101MS RUDDLE:  Instead of s.18.

102HIS HONOUR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ and I will make that clear.  It's sub-s.(35), sub-s.(4) is it?

103MS RUDDLE:  Yes and it's sub-s.(35)(1)(c) is how Your Honour declares it but s.4 allows Your Honour to - to declare ‑ ‑ ‑ 

104HIS HONOUR:  The period.

105MS RUDDLE:  The - the period.

106HIS HONOUR:  And to have it noted in the records of course.

107MS RUDDLE:  Yes Your Honour.

108HIS HONOUR:  Okay well look I'll make that clear that it's under s.35.

109MS RUDDLE:  Thank you Your Honour.

110HIS HONOUR:  I've signed the s.4ZF two orders as well.

111MS RUDDLE:  Thank you Your Honour.  I'm sorry Your Honour ‑ ‑ ‑ 

112HIS HONOUR:  Yes sorry Ms Ruddle.

113MS RUDDLE:  ‑ ‑ ‑ there's one further matter just yesterday I provided Your Honour with my copy of the depositions in this matter if ‑ ‑ ‑ 

114HIS HONOUR:  You did?  You'd like them back?

115MS RUDDLE:  Yes please.

116HIS HONOUR:  Yes thank you.

117MS RUDDLE:  Thank you Your Honour.

118HIS HONOUR:  Michael Williams the terms of the order, Community Correction Order, will be that the order will last for two years, commencing today, ending on 17 February 2016.  You must attend the Dandenong Community Correctional Services at 46 to 50 Walker Street Dandenong within two clear working days after the commencement of the order, that is after today.  You must comply with the following orders:

119You must not commit another offence for which you could be imprisoned during the time that the order is enforced and I have explained that to you.

120You must comply with any obligational requirement prescribed by regulation 17 of the sentencing regulations.  They will be explained to you when you report to Dandenong Correctional Services.

121You must report to and receive visits from the Secretary of the Department of Corrections or his or delegate.

122You must report to the Community Corrections Centre within two clear working days, that is the Dandenong centre.

123You must let the Community Corrections Officer know within two clear working days of you changing your address or your job.

124You must not leave Victoria without first getting permission to do so from the Secretary of the Department of Corrections or his or her delegate.

125You must obey all lawful instructions from and directions of the Secretary or his or her delegate.

126And the additional condition is that you perform 280 hours of unpaid community work over the two year period as directed by the Regional Manager.  Now if you complete the 280 hours within that two year period then the order comes to an end automatically.

127I would like you to check carefully with your counsel the terms of the order and if you are satisfied then sign it then I will counter sign it, all right?  Thank you.

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