Director of Public Prosecutions v Watson, Lucas Edward

[2012] VCC 626

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised

AT MELBOURNE

CRIMINAL DIVISION

Case No. CR-12-00136

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

LUCAS EDWARD WATSON

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JUDGE:	HER HONOUR JUDGE GAYNOR
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:
DATE OF SENTENCE:	30 April 2012
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Watson, Lucas Edward
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2012] VCC 626

REASONS FOR SENTENCE

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Catchwords:

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APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Crown	Mr R. Gibson
For the Accused	Mr M. Wilson

HER HONOUR:

1       Lucas Watson, you have pleaded guilty before me to one charge of armed robbery and one charge of recklessly causing serious injury. 

2       The facts underlying your offending are as follows. 

3       On Friday 29 April 2011, you and your friend, Craig Douglas, travelled to Melbourne to join friends, Thalia Tuck and Kelly Berg, to celebrate Ms Tuck's birthday.  The  four of you spent most of the weekend together, and on Sunday 1 May 2011, you all travelled to St Kilda.   

4       The victims in this matter are Amanda Threllfall (also known as Amanda Brooks) and Luatasi Scanlan, boyfriend and girlfriend, who lived together in Room 219 of the Gatwick Hotel in Fitzroy Street, St Kilda.  Ms Threllfall has severe hearing difficulties and cannot hear without a hearing aid.  Neither victim was known to you. 

5       At about 6.30 pm on 1 May, you and your three friends went to the Gatwick Hotel and booked a room for the night.  You were given a key for a room on the third floor and the four of you went directly there.  At this time Ms Threllfall and Mr Scanlon were in their room on the first floor watching television. 

6       At about 7.17 pm you and Douglas walked to the first floor and went to the victims' room and knocked on the door.  Mr Scanlan opened the door and the two of you entered, you producing a sawn‑off .303 rifle with a wooden stock from inside your jacket.  You took hold of Mr Scanlan and forced him to the ground, jamming the barrel of the rifle under his chin and in the meantime knocking over a nearby heater, which broke into several pieces.  You closed the door behind you, and Douglas walked towards Ms Threllfall, telling her to say and do nothing, and then made demands to Mr Scanlan to give him speed, that is, amphetamine. 

7       Because of her hearing difficulty, Ms Threllfall in the confusion could not clearly hear and stood up from the couch and moved towards Mr Scanlan, who was on the floor.  Douglas then produced a knife and stabbed her four times, three in the back and once in the face.  She fell back onto the bed, holding her back, screamed out, and told you Mr Scanlan had some cannabis on the table in the middle of the room.  You went to the table and found a small red tin containing cannabis, together with a set of silver‑coloured electronic scales, which you took. 

8       Douglas asked Ms Threllfall to show him the wound on her back, which she refused.  The two of you then told Ms Threllfall and Mr Scanlan not to ring police and left the room, returning to the room you had rented on the third floor. 

9       In the meantime, Mr Scanlan got a towel which he held to Ms Threllfall's back and rang for an ambulance.  You and Douglas collected your belongings and left the Gatwick Hotel through a rear door, in company with Tuck and Berg. 

10      Police and ambulance attended the Gatwick Hotel.  Ms Threllfall was taken to the Alfred Hospital where she was admitted and remained for a week.  She suffered a circular scar on her chin similar in diameter to a 20‑cent coin, a laceration from the left mid back to the right lower back about 30 cm long, a laceration on her right shoulder blade about 10 cms long, and a laceration on her right shoulder that was about 5 cms long. 

11      The four of you walked around St Kilda for the next two hours, visiting several hotels, hostels and bars, trying to find accommodation for the night.  You finally ended up at Grey Street, about 400 metres from the Gatwick Hotel, where at about 10 pm you encountered police officers who only moments before had left the Gatwick Hotel after responding to the report of armed robbery and assault.  They recognised you and your associates from CCTV footage shown to them at the Gatwick Hotel, clearly depicting your arrival and check‑in as well as the movements of yourself and Douglas in going to the room of Ms Threllfall and Mr Scanlan. 

12      Police tried to arrest both you and Douglas, during which time Douglas produced a long‑bladed knife from the front of his pants and advanced on police with the knife held up and out at waist level.  He was given repeated warnings not to move and to stop, but continued to advance on Constable Ryan Cross and was shot dead. 

13      Police arrested you and recovered a large black bag, which on questioning you admitted was yours.  Inside it, police recovered a sawn‑off .303 rifle, a set of electronic scales and a small empty red tin. 

14      You were interviewed at the Prahran Police Station where you said on more than one occasion that your name was Nathan Allenson and made "no comment" responses to questions put to you.  A search of your property revealed a resealable bag containing 18 grams of cannabis.  You entered a plea of guilty to the charges on 6 February 2012. 

15      I now turn to your personal circumstances. 

16      You are 27 years old and the second of five children born to your parents, who separated when you were about 11.  You initially lived with your mother, but in your teenage years moved between parental homes.  You no longer have contact with your father, but have a close relationship with your mother, two sisters and two brothers.  None of your brothers and sisters have ever been in trouble with police.  Your elder sister is a social worker with the Department of Community Services; your brother John is a soldier in the Australian Defence Force; your brother Mitchell, a customer service officer at Woolworths; and your sister Amelia has a child and is studying to become a personal trainer.  Your sisters live in Newcastle.  Your father, however, has a considerable criminal history, mainly for trafficking in drugs for which he has been gaoled. 

17        You told psychologist Carla Lechner, whose report dated 22 March 2012 was tendered on the plea, that you were raised in the Nowra area in New South Wales and had difficulties at school, teachers believing you suffered ADHD, although this was not confirmed by specialists.  You reported longstanding problems with attention, focus and concentration. 

18      You had good relationships with your mother and siblings, but said your father was alcoholic and violent, physically assaulted your mother, and verbally abused the children.  Your father was charged with cultivation.  The marriage ended whilst he was waiting for the trial when your father was drinking heavily and you told Ms Lechner "Mum got scared of him and left".  You reported witnessing your father grabbing your mother by the throat, breaking her nose and giving her black eyes, and that he would grab your mother by the hair and swing her around. 

19      You and your brothers and sisters then lived with your mother, but you were expelled at the end of Year 7 at Nowra High School for chronic truancy.  You attended a teaching unit at Shoalhaven High School for most of Year 8, but never went back to school. 

20      Your mother repartnered, but you did not have a good relationship with your stepfather, and at the age of 13 went to live with your father on 800 acres in a national park.  Your mother told Ms Lechner that once you went to live with your father, that this was “the beginning of the end” for you.  Whilst there, you worked on a farm and essentially did agricultural work.  However, your father was a very heavy user of marijuana and alcohol, and introduced you to both those substances whilst you were living with him.

21      Apparently in the years that you lived with your father, you began smoking marijuana on a daily basis as well as drinking alcohol, to the point that by the time you were 16 you were apparently consuming up to half a bottle of bourbon a day.  You also smoked LSD from the age of 15.  By the age of 16, you were a heavy substance abuser and regularly in difficulty with the authorities in the towns around Eden in New South Wales, which was close to where your father was living.  On one occasion you were arrested and charged with grievous bodily harm.  You were placed on bail to attend the hearing, but on your father's advice and with his help, you were driven to Victoria where you went fruit picking for a period of time before being apprehended.  You received a prison sentence and were released from gaol at the age of 18 years and 11 months.

22      During this time your mother had visited you and you decided to live with her where she had relocated in Coffs Harbour on about 400 acres of farmland.  You stayed with her for about four to five months where you made friends with a young man named Adam, who apparently came from a troubled background, and then you returned to Nowra after being in trouble for assault, taking Adam with you. 

23      Soon after your sentence, you returned to live at Coffs Harbour and you met your then partner, Summer, and gave birth to your daughter, Gracie, now aged 7, and who is now in the care of her maternal grandmother.  You and Summer moved to Tasmania where she had extended family, including her mother.  You stayed there for nearly a year, during which time you picked up casual work mostly as a labourer.  The two of you moved to Melbourne.  You were concerned about Summer's drinking and a lack of interest in your daughter.  She returned to Tasmania for a holiday and you worked on an asparagus farm with the plan of visiting her and your daughter on a regular basis. 

24      Summer then came to Melbourne on a visit and you discovered that she had formed a relationship with a friend of yours.  You became drunk and enraged and seriously assaulted both her and him.  You were sentenced to a total effective sentence of five years with a minimum of four years.  I have had the advantage of reading the sentencing remarks of His Honour Justice Kellam which was delivered on 19 October 2006.  That offending involved a horrendous attack upon your former partner where you kicked her, grabbed her by the hair and repeatedly struck her to the face, slammed her face into the road a number of times, threatened to kill her, made her collect your daughter, made her walk around in the rain with her and then took your daughter and left her at the door of a house.  You hit Summer with a curtain rod, you pricked her with a knife.  She suffered a fractured nose, a fractured right eye socket and bruises and lacerations and, in all, a total of 34 injuries were observed on her body. 

25      Once you were sentenced for that offending, you spent 18 months at Marngoneet Prison where you were involved in a range of treatment programs.  You were then paroled in Victoria where you were ordered to undergo what is called an intensive parole, which unfortunately involved you living in a house in Geelong with other parolees, some of whom were actively involved in dealing drugs and drug use.  You had no employment, you were simply attending supervision under parole and had little to do during the day. 

26      After three weeks you ended up being the passenger in a stolen car, panicked, and returned to live with your father.  Whilst there, you worked on the farm, but in a verbal argument with your father your friend Adam, who had continued living with your father for several years by that stage, stabbed you four times with a knife, one stab wound apparently missing your heart by 2 mm.  Your lung was punctured and you were convinced you would die.  Your father took you to the Bega Hospital where you remained for a week in intensive care.  You were extremely fearful you would be returned to gaol and gave a false name and left the hospital without doctors' approval on 6 March 2010.  You went back to your father briefly but began to experience symptoms of a post‑traumatic stress disorder such as panic attacks. 

27      You then went to live with your mother in Coffs Harbour and did not tell her precisely what had happened, but remained there living with friends for about 13 months.  In that time you worked as a casual labourer, but it was difficult for you as the post‑traumatic stress disorder symptoms progressed and magnified and you suffered nightmares, flashbacks and panic attacks during the day.  You were prescribed antidepressant medication such as Xanax, which you eventually abused.  Your mood deteriorated and you became, according to your counsel, hopeless and disassociated. 

28      Your older sister found out about your difficulties and recommended that you contact the Adult Parole Board in Melbourne.  You considered the idea, but did not do this. 

29      It does appear, however, that you used your time in Coffs Harbour relatively well.  I received a written reference from Keith Hendley, a justice of the peace for the past 36 years in New South Wales, a secretary of the Coffs Harbour RSL sub‑branch and a volunteer driver for the local Masonic aged‑care facility.  Mr Hendley retired from the Army as a commissioned officer after twenty‑five years service.  In his letter, which was undated, he stated that he had known the rest of your family, apart from you, for ten years and found them to be a supportive and close‑knit family unit.  He said he met you for the first time in 2010, that you did manual work for him at his house and that he got to know you well.  He described you as enthusiastic and reliable and said that you had discussed with him the stabbing that you suffered.  You also told him that you had a problem with drugs which you were trying to give up.  He said he had been informed of the offending which has brought you before this court, which he described as "totally out of character when compared to the Lucas I got to know".  He said he saw in you a great deal of affection for your mother and siblings and that he believed you now realised the error of your ways and what you are missing. 

30      Your drug and alcohol history has also included experimentation by you with amphetamine, ice, ecstasy, cocaine and LSD, although none of those drugs have appeared to become a problem for you.  You told Ms Lechner that after the stabbing you experienced panic attacks three to four times a day.  You told her that you were a binge drinker in your teenage years although you now drink in moderation.  It is clear, however, that alcohol has remained a problem for you, in my view, and that you have abused it on a regular basis, and then much of your offending has occurred whilst under the influence of drugs or alcohol. 

31      In any event, returning to your history, ultimately you returned to Victoria at the invitation of your co‑accused, Craig Douglas, who was a close friend you had met in gaol.  For about three to four weeks prior to this offending that brings you before this court, you went on a bender, drinking alcohol combined with Xanax and amphetamines.  You lived with Douglas in Geelong and some days before the offending came to Melbourne, staying at a hotel in North Melbourne.  On the night in question, you had been drinking at hotels and had spent time in the city before travelling to St Kilda and to the Gatwick Hotel.  Apparently Douglas had previously brought drugs from the room where Ms Threllfall and Mr Scanlan were now staying. 

32      Your counsel informed me the gun was yours, you had bought it in Geelong for $700 because your abuse of drugs and alcohol there had led you to become paranoid and hypervigilant.  Your counsel told me that at the time of the offending you were clouded by Xanax use, that you remember carrying the gun and going into the room armed, but your memory of the incident as a whole is otherwise poor.  Your counsel also referred to the statement of one of the other girls who attended, saying that your behaviour on that night had been unpredictable and strange.  However, I note that you did tell Ms Lechner that Craig "went off his head" at the amount of drugs offered, that you were trying to calm things down and when you ended up in a scuffle with Mr Scanlan, that Ms Threllfall was stabbed, that you grabbed the bag and scales and ran, and that you told Ms Lechner: 

"Craig was pilled out of his brain.  I said, 'We have to go'.  I still had some sense.  I knew there was trouble and I still wanted to protect him." 

33      You were traumatised by Craig's shooting, describing him as your "best mate", tell Ms Lechner that "he didn't have anyone else".  You have remained in custody since your arrest for this offending. 

34      Ms Lechner stated that when interviewing you, you showed a range of symptoms consistent with a diagnosis of clinical depression, clearly recalling the incident where you were stabbed and witnessing the death of your friend, becoming increasingly distressed, then breaking down and sobbing.  You described to her a number of symptoms which she said were indicative of post‑traumatic stress disorder, that is, nightmares, flashbacks with attendant anxiety, panic attacks and hypervigilance.  You impressed her as being of low average intelligence but as capable of reflecting on the impact as your behaviour has had on yourself and others.  She said you were a person who was easily overwhelmed by social and emotional factors that could undermine your judgement and reasoning skills, that you tended to be impulsive in nature and that you had a low tolerance for frustration.  You told her you had been depressed for a long time over the relationship with your father, which it appears you have unsuccessfully pursued since the age of 13.  You were depressed over the loss of the contact with your daughter, the stabbing, the betrayal of your former friend, Adam, and the loss of Craig.  She said you were inclined to keep your feelings to yourself and have felt chronically anxious since being stabbed. 

35      You told Ms Lechner you are very close to your mother and very grateful for her ongoing support.  I note that she travelled from Coffs Harbour in order to be in court during the plea hearing.  You also described a positive relationship with your siblings, but are no longer in contact with your father, having finally realised he is unreliable and self‑interested.  Ms Lechner said you miss your daughter immensely and hope one day to resume regular contact with her.  She said you have no desire to maintain any old friendships and want to start afresh on your release from gaol.  It is also your desire to be transferred either to a New South Wales prison or immediately released to New South Wales on parole at the completion of any sentence.

36      Psychological testing revealed a score at the extreme range consistent with a diagnosis of clinical depression.  Historical clinical risk testing placed you at the low moderate risk of further violent behaviour.  Ms Lechner said the highest loading on historical factors were previous violence, young age at first violent incident, in addition to your exposure to violence in the family home.  Clinical risk factors included your untreated post‑traumatic stress disorder, which places you at a risk of substance abuse.  She stated: 

"To counter this risk factor, he has insight, positive attitudes, and a willingness to engage with treatment services.  He also has a high level of family support (as long as he is able to geographically access it)." 

37      Ultimately it was her view that with appropriate treatment your prognosis would become increasingly favourable and she felt you had good insight regarding the nexus between substance abuse, offending, and emotional problems. 

38      Your mother told Ms Lechner, in addition to the damage your father did when you went to live with him, that you changed a great deal during the time you were in gaol.  She said the only friends you had in Melbourne were criminals, that you had been devastated by the stabbing at your father's home and by Craig Douglas's death.  She said that following the stabbing, you were paranoid and anxious, "then got on that Xanax and didn't know what the hell he was doing day to day".  She confirmed that she and your brothers and sisters are completely supportive of you. 

39      Ms Lechner also described you as immensely regretful and said you presented as a young man with the motivation and insight to make changes about your behaviour, but lacked the skills. 

40      Whilst in custody you were held at Fulham until recently where you held the position of food billet.  You have recently been moved to the Charlotte Management Unit at Port Phillip in relation to allegations of some behaviour involving a number of prisoners there.  You were also held in the Swallow Unit at Port Phillip Prison for three months.  I was informed that in that time you have seen a counsellor once, who knew you from your days at Marngoneet Prison, who will try to see you once a month.  You have had your name down for drug and alcohol counselling at Fulham and in Port Phillip, but have not been able to access it because of the waiting list. 

41      I make the comment again that yours is another example of the woefully inadequate services available in our prison system.

42      The offending, of course, is absolutely of the utmost seriousness.  This was a savage attack upon an entirely innocent and vulnerable pair of human beings.  You were armed with an extremely dangerous weapon, as was your friend Craig, and whilst I accept that you are charged in relation to the attack upon Ms Threllfall on an aiding and abetting basis, you are indeed fortunate it was not an aiding and abetting to a murder or attempted murder. 

43      Mr Scanlan and Ms Threllfall both made victim impact statements. 

44      Mr Scanlan notes that he and Ms Threllfall had to move out of the Gatwick Hotel to a safer place.  They now have a small baby and are living in motel apartments, which are smaller and more expensive, which is difficult as they are both on Centrelink payments.  He describes continuous fear of a further attack, both for himself and Ms Threllfall, and says, "I feel very unsettled and on edge most of the time".  He feels very protective of Ms Threllfall.  (This is probably an understatement and hardly surprising in the circumstances.) 

45      Ms Threllfall states:

"Before the assault happened, I had been living in rooming houses for a long time.  I had been living with my boyfriend, Luatasi Scanlan, at the Gatwick Private Motel.  We had a quiet life, staying in our room, mostly watching TV, sometimes going down the street or to the movies." 

46      She said that when she was attacked, two men she had never seen before pushed her boyfriend to the floor.  When asked, she said:

"When I tried to get away, one of them stabbed me in the back.  I later found out that he also cut me on my shoulder and chin.  I was very frightened and scared at the time.  I was shocked that this happened to me.  I don't know why they did this to me.  It makes me very angry when I think about this and I don't want to talk to anyone.  I don't want to talk to a counsellor because it is too upsetting to remember what happened." 

47      She noted that surgery had to be performed on her to ensure that none of her internal organs had been damaged.  She said she had pain in her shoulder and back for a long time after leaving hospital.  She said sometimes she gets pain even now when she carries things.  She says: 

"I now have a newborn baby and the pain sometimes affects my enjoyment of holding her and carrying her and looking after her.  I have a permanent scar on my chin and I know that everyone can see.  I would like to have the scar on my chin fixed so that it is not noticeable.  I am not sure how much this will cost me." 

48      Ultimately she states: 

"I do not get out very much.  I don't like to mix with people that I do not know.  Sometimes I do not trust people.  What happened to me makes me feel very angry and upset."

49      In all the circumstances, particularly given the photographs of the injuries that she suffered, this is a very mild victim impact statement.  The injuries were extremely serious.  The photographs show an immense scar stretching across her back and an unsightly scar on her chin for which she probably does not have the finances ever to have fixed up.  You have caused great damage to her, and so did Mr Douglas. 

50      You have a post‑traumatic stress disorder arising from a stabbing committed upon you, Mr Watson.  You need to understand that as a result of your actions, another human being is probably in precisely the same psychological state over such a physical assault as you.  That is what you have done to your victims.

51      Your parole has been revoked; the earliest release date is 16 December 2013.  The fact that you committed these offences whilst on parole is also a serious matter.  However, I do accept to some extent this is a situation that did spiral out of control.  I accept it was not in your interest to be placed in the flat in Geelong on your release from prison on the last occasion, although you were only asked to complete three months of that parole before being transferred.  You lasted three weeks only.  However, I accept that your psychological state was considerably disabled by the stabbing that you then experienced at your father's house and that you carried with you the symptoms of post‑traumatic stress disorder while residing with your mother in Coffs Harbour.  Nevertheless, you did choose to return to Victoria to reunite with Craig Douglas and you did indulge in binge behaviour before the shocking events of 1 May 2011. 

52      In sentencing you, I also take into account your offending history, which is essentially comprised of serious violent offending culminating in the sentence you received in 2006 for your assault upon your former partner. 

53      On 28 April 2003 you were convicted at the Children's Court at Coffs Harbour of assault occasioning actual bodily harm and stalking, together with other convictions.  On     6 August 2003 you were convicted at the District Court of Coffs Harbour of the offence of malicious wounding.  On 19 January 2004 you were convicted of assault occasioning actual bodily harm and sentenced to a term of imprisonment for eight months.  The offending on your former partner, for which you were sentenced by His Honour Mr Justice Kellam, occurred almost 20 months after you were imprisoned for malicious wounding.  I note that you were apparently very drunk at the time that you assaulted Ms Corto in that appalling fashion.  It was argued on your behalf there should be some Verdins application to your offending, but I am not satisfied that this is so.  The authorities make it perfectly clear there must be a nexus between a psychological condition and offending.  Whilst I accept that you have suffered symptoms of post‑traumatic stress disorder since you were stabbed, it was your actions in reuniting with Craig Douglas, after leading a fairly law‑abiding existence up in Coffs Harbour, and abusing drugs and alcohol that led you to this offending rather than your psychological condition.  I do not find there is sufficient nexus for your moral culpability in this offending to be subsequently reduced.  I am satisfied there is some application of Verdins in so far as the second limb is concerned, that is, that you will find the service and sentence of imprisonment more onerous than other prisoners specifically because I accept the diagnosis of Ms Lechner that you have clinical depression and post‑traumatic stress disorder which has remained untreated since you returned to prison, the psychological disorders, in my view, exceeding to some extent the widespread depression that is found in any event in the prison population.  I am not satisfied, however, that that difficulty is so profound that it should have more than a slight mitigatory effect on the sentence I must impose. 

54      Notwithstanding the seriousness of your offending, it is my view that principles of totality still have application in your case.  You are a relatively young man.  You retain the support of a law‑abiding family.  You have finally relinquished hopes of a relationship with your father which has thus far proved, in my view, to be disastrous for you.  You have shown remorse and insight into your offending and I accept that you have reasonable prospects of rehabilitation. 

55 Section 16(3B) of the Sentencing Act makes it mandatory unless there are exceptional circumstances for any sentence imposed for offending whilst committed on parole to be served cumulatively to any period of imprisonment which a person may be required to serve in custody on cancellation of the parole order.  Your parole was cancelled on 14 May 2011 and you were ordered to serve an unexpired portion of two years and five months, meaning your earliest release date is 2013.  Because of the mitigatory factors I have outlined in your case and having in particular regard to the principle of totality, I do intend to impose a sentence of imprisonment that is less than it otherwise would have been because, in my view, there are no exceptional circumstances such that I should order concurrency in your case and that, therefore, any sentence I impose will be served cumulatively to, that is, on top of, your unexpired parole portion.  

56      I, therefore, sentence you as follows. 

57      On the charge of armed robbery, you are convicted and sentenced to two years' imprisonment. 

58      On the charge of recklessly causing serious injury, you are convicted and sentenced to four years' imprisonment. 

59      I order that one year of the sentence imposed in relation to charge 1 be served cumulatively to the charge imposed on charge 2, giving a total effective head sentence of five years. 

60      I order that you serve three years before becoming eligible for parole.  That will be served cumulatively to the parole period that you have already served. 

61      Finally, pursuant to s.6AAA, I declare that had you not pleaded guilty, I would have sentenced you to a term of imprisonment of 6½ years and ordered a minimum term of 4½ years. 

62      I order that three days of this sentence have already been served by way of presentence detention. 

63      That means that you are going to get out in about 2016. 

64      Yes, I know it is a big blow.  Were you listening.

65      PRISONER:  Yes, Your Honour.

66      HER HONOUR:  Your offending was just appalling and you are extremely lucky you are not over in the Supreme Court receiving something in the order of, you know, perhaps 18 with a 13 for murder and you would have been lucky to get something as low as that.  You came very close to making sure you were going to spend the rest of your life in gaol. 

67      I know you have got a long time to go and I know you are a young man.  Hopefully you can get your way back to Marngoneet Prison, but this has got to be your last go in gaol, Mr Watson; otherwise, that is where the rest of your life is going to be.

68      PRISONER:  Yes, Your Honour.

69      HER HONOUR:  You are going to come out young enough to make a life for yourself, but you are going to have to be strong about this. 

70      PRISONER:  I am just wondering is the sentence five years? 

71      HER HONOUR:  With a three‑year minimum. 

72      PRISONER:  With a three‑year minimum, and then I've got the year that I've done isn't into account? 

73      HER HONOUR:  No, because that's the unexpired portion of parole.

74      PRISONER:  And then I've still got 18 months on top of that? 

75      HER HONOUR:  Yes, you have. 

76      PRISONER:  So that makes ‑ I'll do four years and then I'll still have 3½ years' parole? 

77      HER HONOUR:  What will happen is that your earliest release date is December 2013 and then you'll be doing another three years on top of that. 

78      PRISONER:  Once I have served all my parole, before I even ‑ ‑ ‑

79      HER HONOUR:  Yes.

80      PRISONER:  So 5½ years I have to serve? 

81      HER HONOUR:  You have got about four years to go, yes.  That is because your offending was so incredibly serious.  You need to hopefully get back to Marngoneet, but that's the way it is. 

82      Thank you.  You can take Mr Watson down .

83      MR GIBSON:  I have a couple of orders there, Your Honour.

84      HER HONOUR:  Yes, I will do those now.  Thank you.

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