Director of Public Prosecutions v Roe (a pseudonym)
[2021] VCC 1211
•24 August 2021
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA AT MELBOURNE CRIMINAL DIVISION | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| LUKE ROE (A PSEUDONYM) |
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JUDGE: | HER HONOUR JUDGE DAWES | |
WHERE HELD: | Melbourne | |
DATE OF HEARING: | 12 May, 4 and 10 June 2021 | |
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 24 August 2021 | |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Roe (a pseudonym) | |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2021] VCC 1211 | |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:Criminal law – sentence
Catchwords: Sexual penetration of a child under 16 years
Legislation Cited: Sentencing Act 1991 (Vic)
Cases Cited:R v Verdins (2007) 16 VR 269; Muldrock v The Queen (2011) 244 CLR 120; Worboyes v R [2021] VSCA 169
Sentence: 6 months’ imprisonment and 2 year CCO with conviction
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APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the DPP | Mr B Sonnet | Ms L Custovic, Solicitor for the Director of Public Prosecutions |
| For the Accused | Ms E Millar | Victoria Legal Aid |
HER HONOUR:
1Luke Roe,[1] you have pleaded guilty to one charge:
Between August 2013 and August 2016 you sexually penetrated a child under the age of 16. This is a rolled-up charge, which is a collection of identifiable charges, bundled together in a single charge. In this case, it relates to similar offending that occurred on four occasions during a three year period, where you introduced your finger into the victim’s vagina. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.
[1] A pseudonym.
2You were born in May 1967 and were aged between 46 to 49 years at the time of your offending. You have a mild to moderate intellectual impairment.
3The victim is your niece. She was born in August 2001 and aged between 12 to 14 years at the relevant time. She has a cognitive impairment which results in learning difficulties and she uses an aide to support and assist her in her studies.
4The summary of prosecution opening has been tendered and is agreed to be an accurate account of events. It includes references to other misconduct evidence that is not covered by the indictment. This evidence is part of the narrative and places the charged offending into context. A general summary of the facts is as follows:
5The victim is your brother's daughter. You have regularly visited the victim's home and the victim has regularly visited your home in the past.
6In August 2013, the victim had a party for her twelfth birthday at home. After her friends had left, she was alone in the lounge room with you, watching a movie. Her parents were getting ready to go to bed. While the victim was laying on the couch, you touched her breasts. You started rubbing the victim's vagina over her clothing and then inserted your finger into her vagina.
7On or about 20 April 2014 you stayed at a family friend's home with the victim and her parents, during the Easter break. One night, the victim was in the lounge room with you before she went to bed and you asked her to touch your penis. You started to rub the victim's vagina for about two minutes. You then inserted your finger into her vagina. The victim was around 12 years old at the time.
8
You sexually penetrated the victim on two occasions at her home between
August 2015 and August 2016, when she was around 14 years old.
9On the first occasion, her parents had left the house to go shopping and she was reading a book on their bed. You came into the room, touched the victim's breasts and then inserted your finger into her vagina.
10On the second occasion the victim and her parents were at home and she was alone in her bedroom. You came into her room, touched her breasts and then inserted your finger into her vagina.
11In April 2018 the victim commenced counselling sessions with a social worker. In May 2018, she disclosed that you had been sexually abusing her over the last few years. On 13 June 2018, the counsellor made a mandatory report to SOCIT.
12Police commenced an investigation on 14 June 2018, after the victim had formally reported the matter in the presence of her teacher's aide. She later stated to her aide that the offending had been going on since she was 12 years old. On the same day, the victim was very distressed as she disclosed to her maternal grandmother that you had been touching her.
13On 20 July 2018, you were arrested and interviewed. You answered questions about your relationship with the victim but elected to answer “no comment” to the allegations of offending that were put to you. However, before the interview concluded, you stated, “Just say I'm deeply sorry for whatever I have done wrong”.
14Victim impact statements prepared by the victim and your brother, have been provided to the Court. Not surprisingly, the victim has been distressed and traumatised by your conduct. She was scared of your reaction if she disclosed your offending and the effect it would have, as she did not want to ruin relationships within the family. She felt angry about what happened, as she had no control over the way you treated her. At one stage she wanted to end her own life. Her capacity to trust others was reduced and your misconduct negatively affected many aspects of her life. Fortunately, it seems that disclosing your offending has had a cathartic effect on her, which may assist her in overcoming these issues. Your offending has ceased and your niece appears to have developed a more positive view of her life and her future. She is very grateful to people that have helped her and care for her.
15Your brother is traumatised by your offending. He feels that he has failed to protect his daughter, as he did not prevent your conduct. He describes feeling guilt, anger and sadness about what has occurred. He is unable to understand how you could act in this way towards your niece. He states that his family have been broken by your conduct, in one way or another. When he was advised that this matter had resolved to a plea of guilty, it felt like “a load off his chest”. He hopes that over time, his family can all start to repair their lives.
16It is conceded by your counsel that your conduct has had a profound effect on the victim and her father. It has also damaged relationships within your family.
17I take the victim impact statements into account.
18I have no doubt that these acts have had a profound effect upon your niece and her family and that the harm you have caused continues to plague them. Sexual offences are crimes of violence. There is a presumption of harm to a child who is subjected to inappropriate sexual conduct. The victim was a vulnerable young girl at the time of your offending. The victim suffers from a cognitive impairment and you were aware of that.
19You took advantage of her added vulnerability and youth when you committed these inappropriate sexual acts. Your misconduct involves a significant breach of trust, not only of the victim, but also of her parents who allowed you to have access to her, as you were a close family member.
20The seriousness of your offending has been conceded. You committed four separate acts where you physically violated the same victim, over a period of three years. You had time to reflect on your offending conduct yet chose to persist with it. Your offending is inherently serious, given your relationship with the victim and your age disparity.
21Despite your ongoing sexual interest in the victim, there is no suggestion of any planning and it appears that your offending was opportunistic. Fortunately, you did not use threats or excessive violence when you committed the offences, nor is it alleged that the victim suffered any physical injuries.
22There is no hierarchy of the seriousness of penetrative offences. While digital penetration does not ordinarily involve some of the risks associated with penile penetration; being unwanted pregnancy or the transfer of a sexually transmitted disease, it is not necessarily less serious. It involves an assessment of the gravity of the offending on the particular facts of each case. In assessing the gravity of your offending, I do take into account that it did not carry with it some of these risks.
23There is no suggestion that your offending was motivated by substance abuse, excessive alcohol use or any other related problems. You are someone of previous good character. You have not been charged with any subsequent offences and you have no matters outstanding. You are entitled to call upon that good character on your plea.
24You were charged on 5 June 2019 and a filing hearing took place on 3 July 2019. Discussions attempting to resolve this matter commenced soon after. Your case proceeded by way of a straight hand-up brief, with pleas of not guilty entered to the charges. However, no contested hearing was conducted. On 1 October 2020, you were arraigned and pleaded guilty to the current indictment.
25Although your plea of guilty was not entered at the earliest opportunity the prosecution accepts that it was entered at an early stage and that it has a significant utilitarian benefit. You have saved the Court and the community the time and expense of running a trial. You have spared the victim and her family the ordeal of giving evidence. In those circumstances you have facilitated the efficient administration of justice and are entitled to a benefit for that.
26Your plea of guilty is particularly relevant, given the delay in jury trials that has resulted from the COVID-19 pandemic. I consider the utilitarian benefit of your plea to be enhanced by the fact that it was entered during the pandemic.
27The Court of Appeal has recently acknowledged in Worboyes v R[2] that a plea of guilty entered during the pandemic should be accepted as augmenting the utilitarian value of the plea, saying:
“it is worthy of greater weight in mitigation than a similar plea at a time when the community and the courts are not afflicted by the pandemic’s effects. A plea of guilty during the pandemic ordinarily should attract a more pronounced amelioration of sentence than at another time.”
[2][2021] VSCA 169.
28Your plea of guilty also demonstrates an acceptance of responsibility for your offending. Your counsel submits that it is consistent with remorse. I accept this submission and will return to the aspect of remorse later in these reasons.
29You were born in May 1967 and are currently 54 years of age. You are one of three sons and one of your brothers is the victim's father.
30Your parents had a conflicted relationship. Your father was an alcoholic and was physically violent towards you, during your childhood. Your parents separated when you were 15 years of age and you remained living with your mother and siblings. You have had limited contact with your father since that time. The last time you saw him was at your mother's funeral in 2017.
31Your mother developed another relationship for a period of about 12 years. You continued to reside with her. She suffered significant health issues and towards the end of her life, you became her carer. You had a very close relationship and required grief counselling after her death.
32The death of your mother also resulted in your having to find your own accommodation and live independently for the first time, which you found to be very stressful. You have a limited social circle. As a result of your offending, you have fractured your family relationships. You remain in contact with one brother. Your aunt has also remained in contact with you and helped you throughout your legal proceedings, as well as socially. She was present at your plea hearing and maintains her ongoing support of you. You are most fortunate in that regard.
33You were diagnosed with an intellectual disability in 1972 when you were five years old. You have been in receipt of a disability support pension since 1985 and had support available through the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) since 2018. Your finances are managed by the State Trustees.
34Your NDIS package allows for a carer for 13 hours a week and your carer was present at the hearing of your plea.
35When at primary school you were assisted in your education by a teacher's aide and you were in a separate class for people with learning disabilities. You then attended a specialist school until the age of 18. You recall being picked on by other children, as you travelled to and from school. After completing secondary school, you attended an Education Centre which catered for students with special needs. You also attended TAFE where you studied work education and photography. A neuropsychological report prepared in April 1994 recommended a number of adjustments to the standard courses, to enable you to acquire basic training.
36You have undertaken employment in the past as well as working in sheltered employment. You engaged in volunteer work until the COVID-19 pandemic commenced in 2020. You have a keen interest in photography and have received a number of awards for your work.
37In the past you have engaged in one serious relationship, when you were in your mid-thirties. You do not have any children.
38You have a number of physical health issues:
· You have a very low level of vision in your left eye and are legally blind in that eye. You were diagnosed with amblyopia, or a lazy eye, at the age of three.
· Type 2 diabetes.
· Hypertension.
· Elevated cholesterol levels.
· Gastric reflux.
· Asthma.
· You speak with a mild stutter.
· On 5 April 2021, you were involved in a car accident, where you suffered a fractured rib.
39
On 28 January 2021, you were assessed by clinical neuropsychologist,
Ms Jane Lofthouse. She had access to your medical and psychological history. She has provided a report for the Court dated 28 January 2021 and an addendum report dated 3 March 2021. She was aware of your reduced eyesight and does not believe it contributed to your test results. In her opinion, on psychometric testing you demonstrate a mild to moderate level of intellectual impairment on most areas of function.
40Ms Lofthouse made the following findings.
· On the WAIS-IV you obtained a full scale IQ of 69 which is within the extremely low range, at the second percentile.
· There was some significant variance noted across your test scores overall.
· Your General Ability Index (GAI) was 78, within the borderline range. Your verbal comprehension index and perceptual reasoning index are within the low average range.
· You have a restricted reading age, similar to that of a 10 year old.
· Your full scale IQ and personal history are consistent with suffering from a mild intellectual disability, which is developmental in nature and was present at the time of your criminal offending. You are currently a client of the NDIS.
· Your psychological function was also considered. You reported that you have suffered from depression and anxiety dating back to when you were caring for your mother and her death in 2017.
· On testing you obtained a score of moderate on the depression scale and extremely severe on the anxiety scale. You are currently prescribed anti-depressant medication.
· Although it is unclear, it is not likely that your psychological symptoms were present to a significant degree during the period of the criminal offending that led to the current charge.
· Your global intellectual impairment is likely to impinge on your ability for reasoned and informed decision making and places you at risk of inappropriate and impulsive behaviour.
· In addition to poor decision making, intellectual impairment can also contribute to behavioural and personality changes. It is likely to have impinged on your ability to form appropriate friendships. It can also limit a person's understanding of things such as sexual consent and the ramifications of entering into a sexual relationship with underage individuals.
· In her opinion, there is a causal link between the behaviour that led to your current charge and your intellectual impairment, however, this factor cannot fully account for your behaviour. Although your impairment would have contributed to your poor decision making and impulsive behaviour, persons with this intellectual profile do not always engage in similar behaviour.
· It is unlikely that there is a causal link between your psychological symptoms, and the criminal offending, as opposed to your intellectual impairment.
· As part of your rehabilitation, you should undertake a program that addresses the appropriate expression of sexual behaviour including issues of consent. You will also require treatment for psychological issues.
· Being developmental in nature, your intellectual impairment is not likely to deteriorate during a period of incarceration. It is likely to place you at risk of impulsive and poorly reasoned behaviour which will make a period of incarceration more difficult in comparison with persons who do not suffer from these conditions.
· Your psychological issues are significant and you require ongoing monitoring and treatment.
· In her opinion there is a link between poorly considered problem solving and impulsive behaviour and the criminal offending that led to your charge.
· It is unlikely that your intellectual impairment will be fully understood and treated appropriately in prison by staff and other prisoners.
41At the request of your solicitors, you also participated in an assessment with consultant psychologist, Ms Gina Cidoni, on 12 March 2021. She, too had access to your medical history and to the report of Ms Lofthouse. Ms Cidoni was aware that Ms Lofthouse did not feel that your psychological issues were present to a significant degree during the offending period. In her report dated 12 March 2021, she made the following findings.
· You acknowledged that you were sorry for your behaviour and that it was wrong. You said that you know that now. You struggled to verbalise potential impacts for the victim.
· You experienced a traumatic childhood as a result of family violence, which affected your formation.
· You suffer from an avoidant personality disorder, a borderline personality disorder and an adjustment disorder.
· Your psychological problems may deteriorate if you were to be incarcerated.
· Abuse and neglect are common findings in the history of patients with borderline personality disorder. This could have originated from your father's behaviour towards you.
· You formed a friendship with the victim and were then unable to inhibit your sexual feelings and inappropriate behaviour, related to your intellectual disability and personality dysfunction.
· Your intellectual disability and personality dysfunction is thought to be linked to the offending.
· She is concerned that your mental health will deteriorate in prison. Your personality presentation and poor social skills can result in being taken advantage of and your difficulties will add to your vulnerabilities.
· You should participate in a sex offender treatment program aimed at your intellectual level.
42The prosecution does not take issue that you currently suffer from an avoidant personality disorder, a borderline personality disorder and from an adjustment disorder.
43Your counsel has submitted that limbs five and six of Verdins,[3] being hardship in custody and the risk of deteriorating mental health, are relevant considerations. The prosecution does not dispute this submission.
[3] R v Verdins (2007) 16 VR 269.
44In light of your diagnosis, I accept that you are more vulnerable to the effects of imprisonment than a person without those mental health issues. I also accept that your physical disabilities including your lower level of vision and mild stutter would increase the burden of imprisonment. These factors enliven the fifth limb of Verdins. I also accept that on the basis of the medical evidence, the sixth limb is enlivened: a term of imprisonment may have an adverse impact on your psychological functions and your mental health is likely to deteriorate during a period of incarceration.
45Your counsel relies on the opinion of Ms Lofthouse that although your intellectual disability does not fully account for your conduct, there is a causal link between the disability and your offending behaviour. The prosecution does not dispute this conclusion. Ms Lofthouse also concluded that your intellectual disability did impact upon your ability to regulate your behaviour.
46Your counsel submits that your intellectual disability and your difficult childhood reduce the overall moral culpability of your offending conduct. I consider that the principles of Muldrock v The Queen are applicable here.[4] In my view, reduced intellectual capacity and your childhood do diminish your moral culpability. Further, the principles of deterrence and punishment, while not eliminated, should be sensibly moderated in light of your lifelong afflictions. It is not necessary to also consider limbs 3 and 4 of Verdins, as you have already benefited from the application of the principles in Muldrock.
[4] (2011) 244 CLR 120.
47The community would not expect principles of punishment and denunciation to carry the same weight for a person with cognitive limitations, as they would in the case of an ordinary person. This is counterbalanced by the principle of community protection, which remains a relevant consideration.
48Your insight into your offending behaviour is compromised. You struggle to understand the reason for your offending and its consequences on the victim.
49While your capacity to demonstrate remorse may be limited and you are unable to appreciate the impact of your actions on others, you did express remorse for your conduct in your record of interview and in the course of the medical assessments. I am told by your counsel that when the victim impact statements were read to you, you were upset by them and they made you feel sick.
50Your mental health has deteriorated in the lead up to the court hearing. At times where you feel acute distress, you have accessed the Crisis Assessment Team. You have also been treated by the local Short Term Treatment Team and had admissions to the local Prevention and Recovery Centre in August 2018, March 2020 and further contact in February 2021.
51You are anxious about the potential of receiving a term of imprisonment and attempted to overdose on medication in February 2021. You are currently being managed by your local health service.
52Since February this year, you have accessed treatment using cognitive behavioural therapy on a monthly basis. You now see Dr Jake Anderson, clinical psychologist and have been making intermittent progress. You continue to struggle with anxiety and lowered mood which you attribute to your ongoing legal difficulties.
53It is consistent with the findings of Ms Lofthouse that you continue to suffer from a significant degree of psychological issues.
54Ms Cidoni assessed your risk of sexual reoffending. In her view, you are a low risk in light of your age, the age of the victim, your relationship with the victim, your lack of other intimate relationships and the presence of a personality disorder. She noted that there is no evidence of psychopathy, which is also a risk factor in terms of both general and violent recidivism.
55When considering your prospects of rehabilitation, I accept that they are good. You have no criminal history and have the ongoing support of your aunt. Your social isolation precludes future access to members of the community in general. You have recently demonstrated that you have the capacity to participate in treatment. You have been assessed as a low risk of sexual reoffending and you have assistance in place through the NDIS.
56Your counsel has submitted that the second limb of Verdins is enlivened in your case; that is, that your intellectual impairment and psychological conditions, as well as your physical health, are relevant considerations that should have a bearing on the sentence that is imposed.
57While it is conceded that the offending here is serious it is submitted that you are particularly vulnerable and that the court ought exercise mercy, as this is an exceptional case. It was proposed that a Community Correction Order with a Justice Plan would be an appropriate disposition.
58An assessment for a Justice Plan was requested and undertaken. In a letter dated 26 May 2021, it was determined by DHHS that you do not meet the criteria for an intellectual disability. Your general ability index (GAI) was 78 and within the borderline range, which is outside the range of eligibility for a Justice Plan.
59As a result of the finding made by DHHS, Ms Lofthouse was called to give evidence on 10 June 2021. She stated that she had spoken to the DHHS psychologist, Dr Phung. She confirmed her opinion that you do have a significant level of intellectual impairment. She also believes that your adaptive functioning is impaired, although you can attend to your daily living skills and have been able to hold down some employment. It is her opinion that you would have the capacity to engage with a standard Community Correction Order and to complete the order. You have help provided by the NDIS and so they could assist you in attending appointments and completing tasks as required.
60A transcript of Ms Lofthouse's evidence was provided to the Department, with a request for reconsideration. A further assessment was undertaken. In a letter dated 20 July 2021, it stated that you did not meet all three statutory criteria for an intellectual disability and were again found ineligible for a Justice Plan.
61On 26 July 2021, an assessment was undertaken to determine your suitability for a Corrections Order. You offered minimal insight into your offending or remorse. You were assessed as a low risk of general reoffending and found to be suitable for such an order. The author recommended that supervision and a condition for assessment and participation in the Forensic Intervention Services Branch be included. A Forensicare clinician determined that you require treatment for mental health issues and would benefit from a mental health component as part of the order.
62When considering the appropriate penalty, your counsel maintains her submission that a significant Community Correction Order would be appropriate and satisfy all the relevant sentencing requirements in your case.
63The prosecution has made a concession that in light of your personal circumstances, a Community Correction Order should form part of the sentencing disposition. However, the Order should be imposed in combination with a term of imprisonment, as that would properly reflect the gravity of the offending and your personal circumstances. The maximum term of imprisonment available for a combination disposition is 12 months.
64I have carefully considered the appropriate disposition. Your counsel submitted that your offending is at the lower end of mid-range, in terms of seriousness. I do not accept that submission, given your relationship with the victim and that you committed four acts of sexual penetration during a three year period, which have been rolled-up into one count.
65I consider that the objective gravity of your conduct remains high and necessitates the imposition of a term of imprisonment as part of the sentencing disposition, notwithstanding the mitigating material provided on your behalf. I am not satisfied that your circumstances are so exceptional as to preclude imprisonment.
66I consider, however, that in light of your mental and physical health issues, and the onerous burden you will carry in custody, that a combination disposition is appropriate.
67I am aware that the evolving measures taken by Corrections to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic will add to your hardship as a prisoner; particularly as this is the first time you will be incarcerated. The prosecution concedes as much. When you are first taken into custody, you will be required to spend 14 days in isolation in quarantine. I accept that in the current environment imprisonment will be more stressful for you than it would be if you were in the community. There is no certainty as to when personal visits will be allowed, given the unpredictability of the COVID-19 pandemic. This uncertainty will continue throughout your period of imprisonment. The provision of educational and vocational courses has also been reduced at the current time. Overall, these hardships justify a sentencing benefit.
68The prosecution has made an application for you to be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for 15 years, as you have been found guilty of a single Class 1 offence. It is agreed by defence that you are a registrable offender for this length of time.
69I take into account the maximum penalty for this offence. I have considered current sentencing practices and the decision referred to by your counsel. I have endeavoured to tailor your sentence to ensure that it is proportionate to your overall criminal conduct. Were it not for your intellectual impairment, a sentence of significantly greater severity would have been justified.
70Balancing all these factors as best I can, I sentence you to six months' imprisonment.
71The availability of structured treatment upon your release is a significant factor to be considered when regarding the protection of the community and your rehabilitation. I am told that you are prepared to comply with a Community Correction Order, which I will impose, with conviction, for two years.
72The conditions of the order will be:
(i)You are to attend or contact the local Justice Service Centre within two days of your release from custody;
(ii)You are to participate in treatment and rehabilitation for mental health and programs to reduce reoffending. This includes a condition to be assessed and participate in the Forensic Intervention Services Branch to determine and deal with your risk of sexual reoffending.
(iii)You are to comply with supervision as directed.
73While a declaration under s 6AAA[5] is difficult to determine in this case, in light of this being a rolled-up count and your personal circumstances, statutory compliance requires that it be made. The order I would have imposed would have been a term of imprisonment of three years with a minimum of 18 months.
[5] Sentencing Act 1991 (Vic).
74The records of the Court will declare that you have not served any time by way of pre-sentence detention. Ms Millar, could you please confirm with your client if he is prepared to comply with a Corrections Order upon his release from custody?
75MS MILLAR: Yes, Your Honour. Mr Roe consents to that.
76
HER HONOUR: Thank you. I also make the order that he be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for 15 years. Were there any further orders sought,
Ms Custovic?
77MS CUSTOVIC: No, Your Honour.
78HER HONOUR: All right, thank you. Ms Millar, is there anything further?
79MS MILLAR: Your Honour, I thought there was a disposal order just for the sleeping bag. That was not opposed.
80HER HONOUR: Okay. Well, if that order is a current application I'll make the order.
81MS CUSTOVIC: Yes, Your Honour, it is that.
82HER HONOUR: All right, thank you. I'll just make an order here.
83MS MILLAR: Your Honour, I just wonder if a custody management note could be made for Mr Roe noting that this is his first time in custody and noting the psychological issues, as Your Honour's noted, and perhaps that he would need to be seen by either a psychiatric nurse or someone on reception into custody.
84HER HONOUR: I don't know that I have the capacity to make much of a notation, but we will certainly note that it's his first time in custody and I have considered that issue; I thought I would provide a copy of Ms Lofthouse's – her assessment and the secondary report. Do you want a copy of Ms Cidoni's report provided as well?
85MS MILLAR: Yes, please. Thank you, Your Honour.
86HER HONOUR: Okay. So I'll direct that copies of the medical material provided by Ms Lofthouse and Ms Cidoni are to be annexed to the court documents that go through to custody and we will make a notation of it on the court file as well.
87MS MILLAR: Thank you, Your Honour.
88
HER HONOUR: I have no difficulty, if the custody officers do not object, to
Ms Millar speaking with her client before he's removed. Do you want to have a quick word to him?
89MS MILLAR: Thank you, Your Honour.
90HER HONOUR: And then I'll just ask the custody officers - would you like me to leave the link before he's removed or would you prefer to take him now?
91CUSTODY OFFICER: Um, that's fine. You can stay if you - if you want me to.
92HER HONOUR: What was that?
93MS MILLAR: Sorry, I think that they're happy to stay.
94HER HONOUR: All right. So those medical materials will be annexed to the material and I will also add the order for disposal, as requested by the prosecution. Thank you, I'll adjourn the Court.
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