Director of Public Prosecutions v Pickering
[2019] VCC 1056
•9 July 2019
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION
CR 18-00806
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| SHAYNE PICKERING |
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JUDGE: | HIS HONOUR JUDGE SMITH |
WHERE HELD: | Melbourne |
DATE OF HEARING: | |
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 9 July 2019 |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Pickering |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2019] VCC 1056 |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the Director of Public Prosecutions | Mr B. Stougiannos | |
For the Accused | Mr B. Nibbs |
HIS HONOUR:
1Shayne Robert Pickering, you have pleaded guilty to offence of unlawful assault; trafficking a drug of dependence, namely methylamphetamine; trafficking a drug of dependence in a commercial quantity, namely ecstasy and possessing a precursor chemical.
2In addition you have pleaded guilty to three summary offences, namely possessing a prohibited weapon, namely a taser; dealing with property suspected of being proceeds of crime, namely a mobile sim card and possessing cartridge ammunition without a licence.
3The maximum penalties for those offences are as follows: common-law assault, five years' imprisonment; trafficking a drug of dependence, 15 years' imprisonment; trafficking a drug of dependence in a commercial quantity,
25 years' imprisonment; possess a precursor chemical, give years' imprisonment or 600 penalty units or both; possession of a prohibited weapon, namely the taser, two years' imprisonment; possession of cartridge ammunition, a fine of 40 penalty units; dealing with goods reasonably suspected of being stolen, two years' imprisonment.4Your offending was set out in some detail in the summary of the prosecution opening, which was tendered as Exhibit A and read at your plea hearing. In summary your offending is as follows.
5For some time you had been supplying methylamphetamine to a man called, Cridge. Between May and July 2017 you had supplied him with ice to the value of $8,000 on credit. He was apparently unable to pay that debt. Cridge was staying a motel in Ferntree Gully. On 13 October 2017 his car, containing his wallet, mobile phone and other items, was stolen from that motel. On the following day Cridge telephoned you to enquire whether you knew anything about the whereabouts of his car. You told him it was at your place and to come and get it. Cridge with another person went to your home where you were with two others. You demanded payment of the debt by him by the following Tuesday. You told Cridge that he could not leave until the debt was paid and that if he did not pay you would break his bones, shoot him, smash his teeth and torture. Cridge feared that he would be hurt.
6This conduct constitutes the offence of common assault, Charge 1.
7Shortly after, Cridge called somebody, ostensibly, to arrange for money to pay the debt in question. It appears that someone advised police that you were being held at your address. Soon after you observed a police helicopter circling above your home. You, Cridge and two others entered a car and drove away. Soon after you were intercepted by police and arrested. When interviewed by police you denied that you were dealing in drugs or that Cridge was in debt to you for drugs.
8Later that day a search warrant was executed at your address. A number of items were found there, four packages containing methylamphetamine, weighing a total of 36.07 grams. This conduct constitutes the offence of trafficking methylamphetamine, Charge 2. In addition, 1,749 ecstasy tablets weighing 563.07 grams. This conduct constitutes the offence of trafficking in a commercial quantity of ecstasy, Charge 3. Iodine in a container weighing 1,676.8 grams, that conduct constitutes the offence of possession of a precursor chemical, Charge 4.
9You also pleaded guilty to three summary offences and consented to them being heard by this court. They are possessing a prohibited weapon, namely a taser without exemption, summary Charge 2; dealing with property, namely an Optus sim card suspected of being proceeds of crime, summary Charge 7, and possessing cartridge ammunition whilst not the holder of a firearms licence, summary 11.
10You are aged 54. You were born and raised in the Dandenong region. You were an only child. Your father died when you were aged 12. Your mother worked on a part-time basis for a real estate firm and later a law firm. She remarried, but your stepfather died when you were about 18. In your later years you had been able to purchase a family home on a couple of acres near Pakenham, with a two-bedroom unit where your mother resided. You completed Year 10 at secondary school. You were apparently bullied by and fought with older boys at that school.
11With a longstanding partner you had two daughters. You separated from your partner and children after your mother died in about 2004. You formed another relationship and lived with that partner in Queensland for about 10 years. You parted and moved back to Melbourne. During your time in Queensland you were diagnosed with mental health issues. You saw a doctor and received a disability support pension. You have a current partner and apparently still see your two daughters.
12You have a relatively good work record. In your early 20s you had your own car detailing business. You have worked as a house builder; you have owned a restaurant for several years.
13Following your mother's death, it seems that you became involved with illicit drugs. You have a number of prior convictions. In 2016 you were convicted of unlawful assault, criminal damage, contravening a family violence intervention order and failing to answer bail. Earlier in 2016 you were convicted of dealing with money suspected as being proceeds of crime. In 2006 you were convicted of two counts of recklessly causing injury. Between 1987 and 1993 you have a number of convictions for offences of possessing and trafficking cannabis.
14With regard to the current offences, you deny that the money owed by you was a drug debt and say it was a loan that had not been paid. Regardless of the nature of the debt your conduct in attempting to recover it was totally inappropriate and constituted serious offending.
15With regard to the drugs found at your home you allege that you were merely holding them for another person. This explanation is on its face inconsistent with the trafficking charges to which you have pleaded guilty.
16You appear to be extremely fortunate not to have been charged with more serious offences, false imprisonment and/or blackmail. Nevertheless, I will sentence you in relation to the charges that have been brought against you not those that might been.
17In this matter, no victim impact statement was tendered.
18There are some mitigating features involved in your sentencing. You were initially charged with 10 offences in October 2017. In February 2018 you were charged with a further offence of trafficking in a commercial quantity of ecstasy. There was a contested committal hearing in April 2017, at which Cridge and two other witnesses were cross-examined. You pleaded guilty to the current four count indictment in February 2018, soon after those four charges against you were finalised.
19I take into account that about six weeks after your offending you were involved in a motor vehicle accident and seriously injured. I further take into account that in September 2018 you were diagnosed with terminal cancer. I accept that you have been advised by your treating specialist that you are not expected to survive for more than five years. Soon after that diagnosis you applied for and were granted bail, pending your plea hearing. That application for bail was unopposed.
20You have been treated on at least 17 occasions with chemotherapy and I accept that that treatment is likely to be difficult and may require hospitalisations at times. It is likely to continue into the future. I accept that Chemotherapy treatment is often accompanied by debilitating pain and discomfort. You are currently in receipt of a disability pension.
21You have not reoffended since being granted bail. Prior to being bailed you were in custody for 358 days. Your counsel submitted, and I accept, that during that period of detention there was a period of two months when the prison was in lockdown, when there were fires in the prison and all prisoners were kept in their cells. No visits, no phone calls and virtually isolated from the outside world. I accept that such time would have made prison time far more onerous than normal prison time.
22Pursuant to part 2A of the Sentencing Act, by reason of you being sentenced to imprisonment for trafficking cannabis in July 1987 and again in May 1990, you are to be sentenced as a serious drug offender, notwithstanding that those gaol sentences were both wholly suspended.
23Pursuant to s.6D, I must regard the protection of the community from you as the principal purpose for which I am to sentence you. Although the section permits it, the Crown does not here seek a sentence longer than that which is proportionate to the gravity of the offence, considered in the light of its objective circumstances.
24Now, Mr Stougiannos, as I seat here now I am just in some doubt as to whether you did make that concession or not. Is it the case that the Crown does not seek a sentence longer than which is proportionate to the gravity of the offence?
25MR STOUGIANNOS: That's correct. Your Honour, on p.7 of ‑ ‑ ‑
26HIS HONOUR: It says it, does it?
27MR STOUGIANNOS: ‑ ‑ ‑ Exhibit A, we stated the principles of totality apply and the prosecution does not seek a disproportionate sentence.
28HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you for bringing that to my attention and I had a gut feeling that that was where you were coming from.
29MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
30HIS HONOUR: But I just could not find it when I looked for it.
31MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
32HIS HONOUR: Pursuant to s.6E of the Act a term of imprisonment imposed on a serious offender must, unless otherwise directed by the court, be served cumulatively on any sentence imposed at the same time as that term. Further, Charges 2 and 3, the trafficking charges, are category two offences, pursuant to s.3 of the Act. And it follows that under the provisions of sub-s.2H, you must be subjected on each of those two charges to a custodial sentence.
33Now, Mr Stougiannos, in your opening; on p.7 of your prosecution summary the heading is, 'Mandatory Provisions, Sentencing Act, Category One or Two Offences, s.5(2G) and (2H)'. (2H) I have just dealt with there and I understand that, and you have made specific reference to 2H in the paragraph under that subheading. There was no mention that I am aware of, you will probably correct, of sub-s.2G. Or is that possibly a reference that perhaps does not belong here?
34MR STOUGIANNOS: Just give a moment please, sir.
35HIS HONOUR: Sure, I should have given you a - got my associate to give you a call in the last couple of days. It's a difficult sub-section to come to grips with.
36MR STOUGIANNOS: They make these amendments.
37HIS HONOUR: 'Subject to sub-s.2GA in sentencing an offender for a category one offence', am I - what's category one? What's that limited to?
38MR STOUGIANNOS: There's a range of offences that are covered by that and it appears in the definition section I think, Your Honour.
39HIS HONOUR: Yes, which is at the front?
40MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
41HIS HONOUR: And see, T2H, 2H, deals with category two offences.
42MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
43HIS HONOUR: 2G appears to deal with category one offence and it appears to say roughly the same thing, 'A court must make an order under division two, part 3', custodial sentence.
44MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes, they run as a package. I think that's why I put them both - --
45HIS HONOUR: Yes, that's what I was thinking was probably the case. Just bear with me.
46MR STOUGIANNOS: Well the first point is trafficking in a commercial quantity is category two.
47HIS HONOUR: Yes.
48MR STOUGIANNOS: That's under the definition, s.3 of the Sentencing Act.
49HIS HONOUR: Yes, category one appears on p.6 of the Act and deals with quite a long list of crimes.
50MR STOUGIANNOS: 2H then mandates that if it's a category two offence.
51HIS HONOUR: Yes, well I don't think it matters if it's a category one in any event, but ‑ ‑ ‑
52MR NIBBS: No, it's not.
53HIS HONOUR: Do you think there's any category one offence here?
54MR NIBBS: No.
55HIS HONOUR: Yes.
56MR NIBBS: The only category one would have been trafficking large commercial.
57MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
58HIS HONOUR: Well I think we can put it aside. He's got to be sentenced to a custodial sentence in respect of the trafficking offences.
59MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes and 2H, sub-paragraph A through to E, there's like an exemption provision, Your Honour, in certain situations. But that criteria takes ‑ ‑ ‑
60HIS HONOUR: Not applicable here.
61MR STOUGIANNOS: ‑ ‑ ‑ it out of the ‑ ‑ ‑
62HIS HONOUR: Yes.
63MR STOUGIANNOS: There's talk of substantial and compelling reasons that are exceptional or rare, for example, in sub-paragraph E.
64HIS HONOUR: Yes.
65MR STOUGIANNOS: So that's why I put those in that heading, but ‑ ‑ ‑
66HIS HONOUR: Well certainly they don't - it appears that A - or B's been repealed. A, C and D don't appear to be relevant here and B I think ‑ ‑ ‑
67MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
68HIS HONOUR: ‑ ‑ ‑ I can put aside for reasons that will become obvious shortly.
69MR STOUGIANNOS: So that's the sole reason I referred to it.
70HIS HONOUR: Yes.
71MR STOUGIANNOS: But there might have been argument about those points.
72HIS HONOUR: Yes.
73MR STOUGIANNOS: Having application but we say they don't.
74HIS HONOUR: No. Thank you, Mr Stougiannos.
75I think I just said before that under s.5(2H) you must be subjected on each of those two charges, that is the trafficking charges, to a custodial sentence.
76Counsel provided me with a number of examples of what were described as comparable sentences for charges involving trafficking of drugs in a commercial quantity. However, I consider that they were involved with - although they were involved in criminal behaviour of a similar nature to yours, in the main they involve much larger quantities of drugs concerned and that further that none appeared to involve a seriously terminally ill offender and I think or consider they are important differences.
77This in my view is a very unusual case, largely on account of your serious health issues only diagnosed some 10 months ago. There is no doubt that your offending conduct was serious and would normally call for a substantial, immediate custodial sentence. Normally I would agree with the prosecutor's submission that time served in your case is not a sufficient period in custody. However, I consider that there should be a very significant discount on your sentence on account of your terminal illness and short life expectancy. In particular as that condition would affect you during a period of imprisonment.
78With regarding the trafficking charges, I regard the trafficking of ice, methylamphetamine, as involving trafficking of a substance which has become notorious in the last decade or more for wreaking havoc upon many sections of our community, with particular emphasise on its causation of violence and family violence.
79With regard to the trafficking of ecstasy, I note that the quantity of that drug found at your home was 563.07 grams. A commercial quantity of that drug is 100 grams pure or 500 grams in a mixture. The evidence before me did not disclose the level of purity, but in any event this was a commercial quantity and a serious offence.
80In all of the circumstances I have come to the conclusion that it is appropriate to sentence you to a term of imprisonment followed by a community correction order and I intend to impose, subject to what I am about to say in a moment, I intend to impose the following sentence.
81In respect of the Charge 1, of unlawful assault, that you be convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of fours months. In respect of Charge 2, trafficking of methylamphetamine, you are convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 358 days. In respect of Charge 3, trafficking of methylenedioxymethamphetamine, better known as ecstasy, in a commercial quantity, you shall be convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 358 days. In respect of Charge 4, that of possessing cartridge ammunition without a firearms licence, you will be convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of three months.
82MR STOUGIANNOS: Sorry, Your Honour, you mentioned cartridge. Charge 4 was the precursor drug.
83HIS HONOUR: I am sorry, it is. Let me write that in. Thank you,
Mr Stougiannos, for bringing that to my attention.84In respect of Charge 4 you are convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of three months.
85Pursuant to s.6E of the Act, I direct that each of those four sentences shall be served concurrently. It follows that I intend to sentence you to a total effective sentence of 358 days.
86In addition, on Charges 1, 2, 3 and 4, I intend to sentence you to a community correction order of a term of four years, with a number of conditions attached. However, I am not able to impose such a sentence involving a community correction order unless you agree to it. Before I ask you if you do agree, I will advise you of the conditions that I intend to attach.
87Firstly, s.45 of the Sentencing Act provides for a number of mandatory conditions with every community correction order. I will go through them briefly with you. The first is that you, during the period of the order, that is the four year period of the order, you must not commit, whether in or outside Victoria, during the period of the order an offence punishable by imprisonment.
88Secondly, you must comply with any obligation or requirement prescribed by the regulations.
89Thirdly, you must report to and receive visits from the secretary during the period of the order. The Secretary's defined as the Secretary of the Department of Justice, but read for that Corrections Victoria. You must report to and receive visits from Corrections Victoria during the period.
90Next, you must report to the community corrections centre specified in the order within two clear working days. Now I can tell you that that is the
Corrections Victoria office.91ASSOCIATE: Pakenham.
92HIS HONOUR: Yes, at 12/825 Princes Highway, Pakenham. Which I assume is the one closest to where you currently reside. Now the Act actually provides within two clear working days, two working days. So that would be, well, today's Tuesday. That would normally be Thursday. I see that the author of the report, Mr Vuchic, says that he has discussed this aspect with you and says that you should be directed to attend at the community services office at 2 pm within two clear working days. So that means report there by 2 pm on Thursday. Understand?
93You must notify Corrections Victoria of any change of your address or arrangements for your employment, if any, within two clear working days of such change. You must notify them if you got a job, if you lose your job, if you change your job or you move home.
94You must not leave Victoria except with permission of Corrections Victoria during the course of the order. You are not particularly close to any Victorian border but you understand if you go Albury or Mount Gambier for any reason you have left Victoria. Do not do so without permission. And you must comply with any direction given by the Secretary that is necessary for the Secretary to give to ensure that you comply with the order.
95In addition to those mandatory conditions there will be further conditions that you undergo treatment and rehabilitation in respect of a number of matters. Assessment and treatment, including testing for drug abuse or dependency, pursuant to s.48D(3a) of the Act; medical assessment and treatment that may include general or specialist medical treatment in a hospital or residential facility, pursuant to sub-s.3D; any mental health assessment and treatment that may include psychological, neuropsychological, psychiatric or treatment in a hospital or residential facility, pursuant to sub-s.3E, and that you undergo programs that address factors related to your offending behaviour. Which I anticipate will include an anger management program. And also that you be supervised, monitored and managed as directed, pursuant to s.48E of the Act.
96What that means is that your case manager will direct that you attend the Corrections Victoria office or come and visit you, depending which, fairly regularly, depending on the circumstances of your case. It might start off as weekly, might turn into fortnightly or monthly or whatever. But you are to follow those directions as part of your supervision, monitoring and management.
97Now I need to know if you consent to such a community correction order as part of that combined sentence. That is the prison sentence and the community correction order. I should, however, indicate that I will declare pursuant to s.18 of the Act that you have previously served 358 days by way of pre-sentence detention and I direct that that period be deemed as having been served under this sentence and recorded as such in the records of the court.
98I should also advise you that in relation to the three summary offences, with regard to Charge 2, possessing taser, prohibited weapon, you are convicted and fined the sum of $1,000. In relation to summary Charge 7, dealing with the Optus sim card, reasonably suspected of being stolen, you are convicted and fined the sum of $1,000. And with regard to summary Charge 11, that of possessing the cartridge ammunition without a firearms licence you are convicted and fined the sum of $1,000.
99Do you consent to ‑ ‑ ‑
100MR STOUGIANNOS: I think that - sorry, Your Honour.
101HIS HONOUR: Yes, Mr Stougiannos?
102MR STOUGIANNOS: That's summary Charge 9. Originally it was 11 but notes says it was amended.
103HIS HONOUR: Well, yes.
104MR STOUGIANNOS: I'll just confirm that.
105HIS HONOUR: I'm probably working from the material that was put before me. But in case there be ‑ ‑ ‑
106MR STOUGIANNOS: Charge 9 was the charge, sir.
107MR NIBBS: It became 11, didn't it?
108MR STOUGIANNOS: But ‑ ‑ ‑
109MR NIBBS: It became 11.
110HIS HONOUR: Well ‑ ‑ ‑
111MR STOUGIANNOS: It became 11. I beg your pardon, I'm told it became 11. I'm sorry, Your Honour.
112HIS HONOUR: That's certainly what's written on the notice that ‑ ‑ ‑
113MR NIBBS: That's my understanding, Your Honour.
114HIS HONOUR: Yes. Let me find it, make absolutely clear. I know the numbers were ‑ ‑ ‑
115MR STOUGIANNOS: I'm sorry, Your Honour, I'm told it was amended, but I note there was in fact a separate charge. Number 11 was a trafficking in a drug of dependence.
116HIS HONOUR: Let me have a look, Mr Stougiannos. What I had as a notice of related summary offences, which says Charge 8 will be withdrawn and Charges 2, 7 and 11 will be prosecuted. That's as part of the notice of related summary offences, dated 22 May 2019. And Charge 9, someone by hand has crossed out the numeral nine and written in Charge 11.
117MR NIBBS: That's correct, Your Honour.
118MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes, I don't have that but I do have a separate Charge 11. But I think as long as we're all on the same page.
119HIS HONOUR: I think we are and I think that now complies with the notice ‑ ‑ ‑
120MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes.
121HIS HONOUR: ‑ ‑ ‑ of related summary charges that was filed with the court.
122MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes, I'm sorry to interrupt, Your Honour.
123HIS HONOUR: No, that's all right.
124MR STOUGIANNOS: Thank you.
125HIS HONOUR: Better safe than sorry.
126MR NIBBS: Correct.
127MR STOUGIANNOS: Can I ask Your Honour for what the sentence was for that Charge 11?
128HIS HONOUR: Yes.
129MR NIBBS: $1,000 fine.
130HIS HONOUR: It was a conviction with a fine of $1,000.
131MR STOUGIANNOS: Thank you, sir.
132HIS HONOUR: Now on that basis, Mr Nibbs, I will ask your client whether he consents to the community correction order, subject to those conditions and in all those circumstances and I will give him the opportunity to speak to you quickly if needs to.
133MR NIBBS: Yes, Your Honour. Your Honour, when the question was put to my client he will certainly consent to the orders as outlined.
134HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you. In that case I will impose the sentences in relation to Charges 1, 2, 3, 4 that I have previously indicated and the community correction order as previously advised in relation to those charges. In addition I will impose the sentences to summary Charges 2, 7 and 11 as previously indicated and I will make the declaration pursuant to s.18 of the Act regarding your pre-sentence detention of 358 days.
135Further, pursuant to s.6AAA of the Act I declare that if you had no pleaded guilty to these charges, but been convicted of them, I would have sentenced you on Charge 1, to a term of imprisonment of six months; Charge 2, to a term of imprisonment of 18 months; Charge 3, to a term of imprisonment of 12 months; Charge 4, term of imprisonment of five months and I would have ordered that each of those sentences be served cumulatively. On each of the three summary charges I would have imposed on each of those charges a fine of $1,500.
136Now what is the position with ancillary orders? I have note here that there's a 464ZF order sought?
137MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes, that's been electronically filed I'm told, Your Honour.
138HIS HONOUR: Yes, can we dig that out, I'm not sure I've got the 464ZF sample order. And also I have a note that there's a disposal order sought.
139MR STOUGIANNOS: That's correct, I've got the draft order, Your Honour.
140HIS HONOUR: If you've got that, if you could that hand that up that would be helpful.
141MR NIBBS: That's not opposed, Your Honour.
142HIS HONOUR: Not opposed?
143MR NIBBS: No.
144HIS HONOUR: Thank you. The s.464 also?
145MR NIBBS: Nothing I can do about that, Your Honour.
146HIS HONOUR: Well he cannot consent to it but it won't make the slightest difference as I understand it.
147MR NIBBS: Exactly, Your Honour.
148HIS HONOUR: The disposal order relates to taser, gas bottles, sealed bags containing you tube pills, shotgun rimfire ammunition, MSN bag, counterfeit note, mobile phone, sim card, Ziplock bags containing drug of dependence tablets and methylamphetamine, hydrochloric acid, iodine and two surveillance devices. I will order that they be disposed of. Thank you and I will sign that. Apparently we do not have the 464ZF draft order, you have got a ‑ ‑ ‑
149MR STOUGIANNOS: We don't have it to hand.
150HIS HONOUR: But it could be ‑ ‑ ‑
151MR STOUGIANNOS: But we could undertake to file a copy.
152HIS HONOUR: Has your instructor got it on her system?
153MR STOUGIANNOS: Yes, she can email it.
154HIS HONOUR: Well she can email it to my associate right now and it can be printed right now.
155MR STOUGIANNOS: That's a better approach, thank you, Your Honour. Wonders of the technology.
156HIS HONOUR: Yes. I will make the s.464ZF order. That is the order that requires or entitles the police to obtain a swab from inside your mouth for registration of your DNA on the database of Victoria. I make the order because of the serious nature of the charges for which you have been convicted and sentenced and also because it is made by consent. I should tell you that notwithstanding that consent if come the time you do not consent to police obtaining a swab from inside your mouth, police do have power to use adequate force to obtain a blood sample from you. That is if you do not consent to it being done.
157All right, so just while that is being prepared there is also a document in relation to the community correction order that requires your signature, Mr Pickering. I will give it to Mr Nibbs, I think, to peruse and discuss with you if he wishes to do so.
158MR NIBBS: Your Honour, it might be easier if I approach my client and have him endorse it.
159HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you, Mr Nibbs. Now is there anything else that counsel consider that I should be attending to before we adjourn.
160MR NIBBS: Not that I can think of, Your Honour.
161HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you.
162MR STOUGIANNOS: It's in transit, my instructor's found it but ‑ ‑ ‑
163HIS HONOUR: Sometimes they're not as instant as you think.
164MR NIBBS: No, Your Honour.
165MR STOUGIANNOS: She's had to plough through a lot of other documents but she's found it and, Your Honour, it's been sent.
166HIS HONOUR: Good.
167MR NIBBS: Your Honour, the order's been made, we're happy that it can be forwarded ‑ ‑ ‑
168HIS HONOUR: I'll sign it during the course of today and make sure it's returned to the Crown.
169MR NIBBS: Yes, Your Honour.
170MR STOUGIANNOS: Thank you, Your Honour.
171HIS HONOUR: And to your instructing solicitors.
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