Director of Public Prosecutions v Pejakovski (a pseudonym)
[2022] VCC 785
•31 May 2022
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA AT MELBOURNE CRIMINAL DIVISION | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| MARK PEJAKOVSKI (A PSEUDONYM) |
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JUDGE: | HER HONOUR JUDGE RIDDELL | |
WHERE HELD: | Melbourne | |
DATE OF HEARING: | 29 April 2022 | |
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 31 May 2022 | |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Pejakovski (a pseudonym) | |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2022] VCC 785 | |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:Indecent Act with Child Under 16
Catchwords: Father – Daughter – Offending spanning over 10 years – Full admissions – Remorse – Good Prospects of Rehabilitation – Delay
Legislation Cited: Sex Offenders Registration Act 2004
Cases Cited:
Sentence: 2 years and 5 months imprisonment
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APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the DPP | Ms H. Baxter | Nicholas Donaghy |
| For the Accused | Mr J. Anderson | Ben Hanley |
HER HONOUR:
1Mark Pejakovski[1], you have pleaded guilty to five charges of indecent act with a child under the age of 16 and one charge of attempted indecent act with a child under the age of 16. The victim of that offending is your daughter Laura[2].
[1]A pseudonym.
[2]A pseudonym.
2At the time of the offending, she was between five years old and 14 years old. You were between 30 and 40 years old.
3The offending happened in your family home. It involved you taking advantage of situations when Laura was alone, or creating opportunities where she was alone, to touch her sexually. The charged offending occurred amidst repetitive episodes where you touched her vagina or attempted to do so.
4At the time of the offending, you resided in the Western suburbs of Melbourne with your wife and three children.
Circumstances of Offending
5Between 11 July 1998 and 31 December 1998, Laura was five years old. She was told by her mother to accompany you to take some food scraps to a vegetable garden. She noticed a strawberry and called you over to look at it. While you were walking back to the house, you put your arm around her waist and slowly pulled her in for a hug from behind. Your arms were crossed over the whole of her upper body. You slowly put your hands down the seam of her skirt and put your fingers on and around her vagina. She tried to nudge your hands away. This lasted for seconds, until you moved your hands away and said, 'let’s go'.
6Laura said she did not understand what was going on. She now recollects that it felt like you were trying to masturbate her. That is Charge 1.
7The following year, Laura started Prep. She was still five years old.
8She had her school uniform laid out on the bed ready to try on for the first time. You came into her bedroom and asked whether she was excited to start school. She asked if you would like to see her in her new uniform. She changed into her uniform and you and her mother told her she looked beautiful. Her mother left the room.
9As Laura turned around to get changed, you came up from behind and wrapped your arms around her. You put your hands under her dress and put your hands around her hips. She moved your hands and told you that you had to leave her bedroom so she could get changed. That is Charge 2.
10One week later, Laura was in the garage of her grandmother’s house, which adjoined yours. She was looking at her grandmother’s napkin collection when you came in. You had just returned from work and were putting your tools in the garage.
11You asked what she was doing. You then went straight towards her and tried to take her pants off. She tried to resist, but gave up when you persisted. You put your hand down the front of her pyjama pants and put your hand on her vagina. You then rubbed her vagina. You also tried to kiss her on the lips. She moved her face away and you removed your hand and walked away. That is Charge 3.
12Laura turned seven in July 2000. On a date between then and 10 July 2002, Laura was asked by her mother to go and get some sausages from a fridge in the garage. You went with her. As she was standing in front of the fridge, you put one hand around her and tried to slide the other hand down her pants. She pushed your hand away, grabbed the sausages and walked away. That is Charge 4.
Uncharged Acts
13Those charged offences occurred in the context of other uncharged contact. Between 1998 and 2003, when Laura was aged between five and 10 years old, you made numerous attempts to touch and masturbate her vagina. She described that your attempts became more regular as she grew up.
14At Sunday lunches for approximately three years, Laura would go to the garage to get food or trestle tables and you would follow her. You would put your hands down her pants and put your hands on her vagina and rub it or leave your hand there. Laura estimates this happened every Sunday over those years.
15At Sunday lunch at her grandmother’s house, you would sit next to Laura and sneak your hands under the table and put them under her clothing and onto her vagina. The touching would be momentary.
16You would also come into her bedroom and ask if she needed help with her homework. You would use that excuse to try to put your hands on her vagina. Sometimes you managed to do so and sometimes you were not able to, because she knocked your hands away. As your daughter shared a room with her two brothers, you were often interrupted by another family member entering the room and would pull away. Those interruptions, however, did not deter your repeated conduct.
17There was a computer set up in the bedroom where Laura and her brothers would play the game Age of Empires. When she played the game, you would attempt to put your hands down her pants. This happened so regularly that she started wrapping a blanket around her lower half, so you could not get your hands into her pants.
Complaint
18In 2003, when she was nine, Laura told her mother what was happening.
19She told her mother that you kept putting your hands down her pants and touching her. Laura told her mother that it happened when she was in her room or 'whenever'. Her mother, your wife Rachel[3], appeared shocked and said she would talk to you.
[3]A pseudonym.
20After a couple of weeks, Laura asked her mother whether she had spoken to you. You had obviously had a conversation with your wife, because she told Laura that the touching was an accident and that you had forgotten that Laura was growing up and could not tickle her in places like when she was a baby.
21The offending stopped for a brief period, but at some stage, you commenced sexually abusing her again.
22Laura described during her teenage years that you would attempt multiple times a week to touch her vagina. She also reported to a pastoral care pastor from her church, that when she was doing homework at the computer, you would come up behind her and put your hands on her breasts.
23On odd occasions, when she was in the office studying, you would try to put your hands down her pants, but she would block you.
24Laura turned 14 in 2007. On an unknown date between that time and 10 July 2008, she was in the study at a computer doing homework.
25You came up from behind and leant over her to see what she was doing. You slowly tried to slide your hands up her legs and down the front of her pants, but she pushed you away. She got up and walked into her bedroom. That is Charge 5.
26Immediately after this, Laura called to her mother to come and help her with her homework. Her mother yelled out that she could not, but that you would come in.
27You came into the victim’s room. You again put your hands on her legs and tried to slide them down the front of her pants. Laura told you, 'Seriously, again, I don’t need your help'.
28This was the last incident. As she got older, she was to successfully stop any attempts you continued to make, she would also ensure she was not alone with you.
Second Complaint
29In 2010 when Laura was 17, she disclosed what had happened to her to her older brother Joseph[4]. She told him that you had been sexually abusing her from a young age.
[4]A pseudonym.
30He remembered occasions when he walked into the lounge room and would see you and Laura sitting on the lounge chair watching television. He remembered seeing you quickly move your hand away.
31He reported the offending to a pastor and counsellor at the church that your family attended. He also told an aunt and uncle.
32The relevant people at the church made a report to police.
33A few weeks later, a counsellor from the church sat down with the whole family to discuss that report. The counsellor required you to attend a psychologist and certain arrangements were put in place when you attended the church, so that you did not have contact with other children.
34Your daughter moved out of the family home when she was 20.
35
With the assistance of her church, Laura reported the offending to police on
3 June 2017. She provided an account at that time, but was not ready to make a statement.
36She ultimately provided a statement to police June 2018.
Arrest and interview
37You were arrested and interviewed on 15 May 2019. To your credit, you made full admissions. The interview was not recorded due to a malfunction, however, you do not dispute what was contained in police notes, namely that you admitted the following:
(a) That you had started sexually abusing Laura when she was aged around six or seven;
(b) That you knew that what you were doing was wrong, but you did not know why you did it and kept abusing her;
(c) That she told you 'no' or 'stop' most times it occurred;
(d) On those occasions, you said that you would put your hands down her pants or into her dress and touch her on the vagina;
(e) That you touched the surface of her vagina, but never penetrated her;
(f) That the touching would go on for maybe one to two minutes;
(g) You stated that you could not remember all the incidents, but believed they mainly occurred around the computer in her bedroom;
(h) When confronted about the allegations made by her, you said that you could not recall the exact incidents she disclosed, but if that she said that it happened, it probably happened as she described;
(i) That the abuse occurred about once a month for about 10 years, until Laura turned 15 or 16 years old.
38When later questioned as to her account that it was a weekly occurrence, you said that if she said it was a weekly occurrence, then that was likely to be true. You admitted that after touching her vagina, you would go off into a separate room alone to masturbate and ejaculate. You said you had no sex life with your wife and so Laura ‘was the next best thing’. You said your wife Rachel knew about the offending because she was told by the victim, but that she thought the touching was accidental.
39You said that you felt bad and tried to stop, but it only stopped once Laura told your son, who in turn told your wife. You agree that you went to counselling organised through the church and you told them you had touched her and you were sorry about it. When asked for your reasons why you persistently sexually abused your Laura over that period, you said 'I can't answer that, I don't know why'.
Sentencing Principles
40Sexual crimes against children are serious. They violate the basic norms of civilised behaviour and they strike at the value the community places on the need for care of young children, in particular, by those in positions of power over them. That is particularly so where the offending involves a breach by someone in a position of care or trust.
41The role of father and daughter is a precious one. You breached Laura's trust by what you did to her. You were a predator living in the same house, taking or making opportunities when she was alone to touch her. She was a child who was home-schooled. That fact means she must likely have had very few avenues of escape, and fewer avenues to complain to anyone outside her family.
42Sentencing courts must send a strong message of denunciation. Sentences must deter others from offending in this way, and must seek to protect the community and in particular, any other child from being abused by a person in a position of trust.
43In assessing the objective gravity of your offending, that position of trust as father, elevates the seriousness of your offending. You have breached that trust in a most egregious way. You have also breached the trust of your sons and your wife. Your offending has broken up your family unit. Your offending is in stark contrast to the religious faith you profess.
44In looking at the individual charges, the following are features of aggravation.
45Laura was an extremely young child when your offending started. Your offending spans a significant period of time. That is a period of over 10 years. That represents a most significant portion of her childhood.
46Charges 1, 2 and 3 refer to the period when she was a five year old. Charge 4 refers to an offence when she was a seven year old, and Charges 5 and 6 occurred on the same day when she was a 14 year old.
47I accept the events in Charges 1 and 2 can be characterised as opportunistic and brief. However in Charge 1, you ignored her efforts to move your hands away, putting your fingers on and around her vagina, which she now understands was an attempt to masturbate her. That must be seen as a moderately serious example of this offence.
48In relation to Charge 2, you offended against her on the day she showed you her Prep uniform – a day which should have been exciting and memorable for her for good reasons. I accept on that day you did not touch her vagina. For that reason, it is a lower level example of this offending, though still intimate contact.
49In my view, Charge 3 reflects a more determined effort by you to sexually touch her, despite her efforts to get away and to push your hands away. You were attempting to take her pants off in the isolated setting of the garage.
50The fact she did not like what you were doing to her, must have been obvious, but you ignored those protests and persisted in trying to kiss her on the lips. You rubbed her vagina. It was accepted by your counsel that that is the most serious of the charges here for those reasons. It is a more serious example of the offending.
51Charge 4, when she was a seven years old again occurred when she was on her own in the garage. You tried to put your hands down her pants. You did not manage to do so, but only again, because she was able to force you away. That is the attempt charge.
52Despite the interruption of your wife in 2003 after Laura made her first complaint, you not only manipulated your wife into believing any contact was accidental, but you then continued with your offending. You did that entirely for your own sexual gratification.
53You ignored Laura's protests and attempts to physically resist you. You repeatedly used opportunities to offend. She was forced to take protective action by putting a blanket around herself.
54As a 14 year old, she was in a different category of vulnerability. As a young pubescent girl, she was entitled to her bodily integrity. It must have been confronting and confusing to have you attempting to touch her sexually. You used the opportunity of a request for help with homework, to abuse her. Twice on the one day, reflected by Charges 5 and 6, you put your hands up her legs and down the front of her pants. She pushed you away and had to leave the room. Immediately after that, you went into her bedroom and attempted to repeat those acts.
55I accept in relation to Charge 6, that you did not touch her vagina. In relation to Charge 5, you put your hands up her legs and down the front of her pants, but she pushed you away. Although you did not touch her vagina, that was only due to her efforts. It remains sexually intimate conduct.
56Those charged acts occurred against a backdrop of predatory, repetitive abuse of her. You are not to be sentenced for those uncharged acts and these are not representative or rolled up charges. They reflect single events on single occasions. However, the uncharged acts provide the true setting for those charged offences as I have described. It means they were not isolated aberrations, but committed amidst your ongoing sexual abuse of her.
57Although the single charged events are themselves not at the higher end of the scale of seriousness, that context is relevant to me making a true assessment of them.
58I agree with the prosecution submission that your moral culpability is high. In my view, your overall offending here is serious.
Victim Impact
59The impact of your offending is eloquently outlined in Laura’s victim impact statement. She says the abuse during her childhood was traumatic:
'I never felt safe and I have very low self-esteem and had little value for myself'.
60She says:
'Being home schooled, not by choice, education was very challenging as I studied in my place of discomfort and dysfunction. As a result, I was not given the stability or the tools to pursue any higher education, due to being unable to engage in VCE or VCAL'.
61She says:
'I lived with the shame, confusion, guilt and fear. I was suicidal and thought about ending my life …daily because I was filled with anger. I suffered from depression. I had trouble trusting anyone in my life and learnt to keep people at distance. … I used to engage in unhealthy behaviours to numb the pain of the trauma. I lost family members, and ultimately lost a family'.
62She was forced to seek professional help, and sought pastoral care from her church. Thankfully she says her life completely changed. 'If it was not for my God, I believe I would not be alive ...'.
63She has discovered her intelligence and remarkable capabilities and having worked through a lot of her trauma, has taken on higher education to pursue her role in early childhood education. Professional help to work through her trauma has come at a financial cost.
64She is a remarkable and resilient young woman, now 28, who says:
'Whilst I had many opportunities to remain broken, I simply chose that I wasn’t happy living a life that was based on my trauma. I worked very hard to become an involved member of the community, that had passions and value and the will [not] to fall short'.
Maximum Penalty
65The max penalty for the offence of indecent act with a child under 16 is 10 years imprisonment, and for an attempt is five years imprisonment.
66In my view, your offending against her warrants a term of imprisonment despite some mitigating personal factors to which I will now turn.
Personal circumstances
67You are now 54 years of age. Your family is of Yugoslavian background and Slovak was the primary language in your home. Your father worked as a builder and your mother in a brick factory. When they came to Australia, your father worked in a sheepskin factory and your mother at Myer.
68You have two brothers and a sister who recently passed away. Another brother died when you were young. Your remaining brother has been present with you in court throughout these proceedings.
69Your childhood was relatively impoverished. Your father died when you were young. Your mother raised you and your siblings by herself. She engaged in a number of abusive behaviours, including for example, hitting you with a belt or making you kneel on uncooked rice for periods of hours.
70You had no surrogate father figure. Your mother struggled financially to support you. As a result, you had to work from the age of 10, selling newspapers. That involved getting up at 4 am each morning.
71You left school at age 16. You had not enjoyed school. You spoke Slavic at home and only learnt English at school. That made you something of an outsider. You had few friends and were a below average student.
72However, following school, you developed a range of skills. You have had an exemplary work history as a tradesman, working as a plasterer and a carpenter. You continued to work until I remanded you on 29 April 2022. You have always financially supported your wife and children and been the primary breadwinner.
73You met your wife, Rachel, when you were 21. You married and had four children together, Daniella, Joseph, Laura and Stephen. Daniella tragically died when she was 15 months old. She woke early and choked herself, becoming stuck between two tables. That was no doubt a significant and tragic event in your life and the life of your wife and family.
74Your wife says you had trouble expressing your emotions. Neither of you had any counselling. You both shut down. At that time, your son Joseph was three months old.
75That event seemed to entrench some of your learned behaviours from early trauma of losing your father and brother. You could not express emotion or deal with that loss. You became emotionally detached.
76Your wife was a stay at home mother and when the children were older, took on responsibility for home schooling them. It would seem that your upbringing with a single mother, who was clearly struggling after the loss of her husband and one son, as well as your own experience of grief, had left you with stunted, emotional and social development.
77You do enjoy the ongoing support of your wife, despite your offending. You and she have discussed the prospect of imprisonment and as a result, your wife returned to the workforce in recent times. You feel ashamed and responsible for that fact.
78Throughout the upbringing of your children, your family was heavily involved in your church in the Western suburbs of Melbourne. That is an Evangelical church of some thousands of people. Your life revolved around work, your family and your church. You attended meetings and activities through your church on Sundays and throughout the week. Your wife volunteered at the church, while you often gave up time on weekends to volunteer. No doubt, you were a valuable asset in terms of your trade skills.
Chronology of complaint and prosecution
79This offending has cost you your involvement in your church. The offending ceased after Laura complained to her older brother, as a 17 year old. That triggered a series of events around 2010, leading to your church being notified of the offending.
80You took responsibility for the offending at that time, conceding to your pastor the truth of the allegations made against you. You admitted it to your wife and Laura. As I have said, your church put in place a number of restrictions regarding how you were to associate with other parishioners. You abided by those restrictions.
81In around 2017-18 when your church assisted Laura with the impact of your abuse, the church finally cut you off. You are no longer welcome despite maintaining your faith. You have lost not only your church, but also the social connections you had built over the years. Your wife has also been forced to leave.
82You are now estranged from your children, a sad reflection of the destructive abuse such offending can cause, not just to the direct victim, but to other family members.
83Your church notified Victoria Police of your offending in 2010, however, it appears no action could be taken without a statement from Laura, who at that stage was not ready for police involvement.
Delay
84She made that statement in June 2018. You were not interviewed until May 2019. I was told that 11 month delay was due to police waiting for a statement from your son, as to the complaint made to him. I do not accept that was a valid reason for such delay. There were a number of other avenues, including the church pastor, to obtain complaint evidence.
85When interviewed, you made full and frank admissions. They are a critical part of my considerations here. You were open and honest, always accepting Laura’s narrative, even when you could not remember details. You receive the benefit of having taken that approach. It is a significant mitigating factor.
86Despite that interview, you were then not charged for over 18 months, until November 2020. I have received no satisfactory explanation for that further substantial delay. While I appreciate the workload on police and on the prosecution, swift action to bring these matters into the criminal justice system is to the benefit of all parties. It is very difficult for victims to have such delay. It is also difficult for an offender – who can do no more than make full admissions to the allegations – to live with the threat of charges hanging over them, and the uncertainty, for an inordinate period of time.
Plea of Guilty
87Once in the court system, your matter resolved reasonably promptly. You indicated your intention to plead guilty at an early stage. You receive the benefit of that plea.
88A plea of guilty is always important to the sentencing process, but in cases such as this, it is a more compelling feature for the following reasons. First and foremost, it saves the victim giving evidence and reliving any trauma. Where ethe setting is a family one, it saves other members of the family having to give evidence. Those are important matters.
89In addition, it has the utilitarian benefit of saving the community the time and expense of a criminal trial.
90I accept your counsel’s submissions that those benefits have never been of greater importance, than in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, where there is a backlog in the criminal justice system. You are entitled to the full weight of those factors.
91In your case, I also take into account the fact the record of interview did not record. Your acceptance of what was contained in police notes, is a very relevant mitigating factor.
Prospects of Rehabilitation
92In your case, I also accept that your plea reflects your genuine remorse and shame at your offending. You understand the wrongfulness of your actions. You admitted that at every stage after 2010. I believe you now have some insight into the damage you have caused Laura, your sons and your wife.
93To that end, you have recently engaged in counselling and you commenced a sex offender program.
94You are a man with no prior criminal history and no subsequent offending. Your last offence was in 2007 or 2008. You are now 54 years old. Those matters are also significant.
95I accept your prospects of rehabilitation are very good. Dr Barth assessed you as falling in the 'Low-Moderate Risk' category for sexual recidivism. However, he noted that that risk could be reduced further with the completion of a specialist sex-offender treatment program.
Submissions on Sentence
96In light of those significant mitigating factors, your counsel submitted that a wholly suspended sentence was within range, despite the serious nature of your offending. In the alternative, he submitted a partially suspended sentence rather than a head sentence and non-parole was available to me.
97The prosecution, in light, particularly of the unusual situation where you have already abided by restrictions from your church and then been ostracised by them, and particularly where there have been those significant delays in reporting the matters and then bringing them to conclusion, and considering your plea of guilty and your positive prospects of rehabilitation, submitted that a wholly suspended sentence was within range.
Current Sentencing Practice
98I have considered a number of cases referred to by counsel and to the Judicial College sentencing summaries, when I have turned to current sentencing practices for offending such as yours. You are to be sentenced as a serious sexual offender, once I impose terms of imprisonment on Charges 1 and 2.
99In my view, a term of actual imprisonment must result. The breach of trust here is too great. The repetition of offending over more than a decade, in the context of other sexually abusive behaviour, and the opportunity to desist from that behaviour when a complaint was originally made, make this a matter which in my view cannot be met with a wholly suspended sentence.
100However, for the reasons advanced by your counsel, and accepted by the prosecution, I do accept that a partially suspended sentence is within range, rather than a head sentence and a non-parole period. You do have ongoing support of your wife and brother in the community. You have capacity for work. Specific deterrence has essentially done its job. You have taken some steps to specifically address your offending behaviour, by undertaking sex offender treatment. In those circumstances, I accept that a parole period is unnecessary.
101I also accept that there can be significant concurrency regarding Charges 5 and 6, which occurred on the same day, and that despite you being a serious sexual offender where the usual position is one of complete cumulation, I will direct otherwise.
102In all the circumstances Mr Pejakovski, I sentence you as follows.
Sentence
103On Charge 1 – indecent act with child under 16, you are convicted and sentenced to eight months imprisonment;
104On Charge 2 – indecent act with child under 16, you are convicted and sentenced to 10 months imprisonment;
105On Charge 3 – indecent act with child under 16, you are convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment;
106On Charge 4 – attempted indecent act with child under 16, you are convicted and sentenced to seven months imprisonment;
107On Charge 5 – indecent act with child under 16, you are convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment;
108On Charge 6 – indecent act with child under, 16 you are convicted and sentenced to 10 months imprisonment;
109I direct that Charge 3 is the base sentence of 12 months imprisonment. I direct that two months of Charge 1, three months of Charge 2, three months of Charge 4 and nine months of Charge 5, be served cumulatively on the base sentence and on each other.
Total Effective Sentence
110The total effective sentence therefore is one of 29 months imprisonment. Just let me check that. Yes. I direct that 16 months of that sentence be suspended for a period of two years and six months from today’s date. The portion of sentence to be served therefore is one of 13 months imprisonment.
111I declare that you have served 33 days pre-sentence detention and that that period should be reckoned as having been served under this sentence.
Serious Sexual Offender
112I direct that in relation to Charges 3 to 6 inclusive, you are sentenced as a serious sexual offender and that that matter should be entered into the records of the court.
113
Pursuant to s6AAA, but for your plea of guilty, the sentence I would have imposed would have been one of five years and eight months imprisonment, with a non-parole period of three years imprisonment.
Sex Offender Registration
114Under the Sex Offenders Registration Act 2004 ('SORA') you are pleading guilty to six Class 2 offences.[5] Accordingly, mandatory registration applies.[6]
[5] Schedule 2 of the Sex Offenders Registration Act 2004.
[6] Sections 6 and 7 of the Sex Offenders Registration Act 2004.
115Pursuant to s34(1)(a) of SORA, you must comply with reporting obligations for life. So I make those orders.
116In relation to the paperwork, Mr Anderson, that would ordinarily be provided to Mr Pejakovski at this point as you know and he would normally be required to sign that acknowledgement that he has received the paperwork. I noticed recently there has now been an option placed on that paperwork and that is, where there is no acknowledgement sought. I am not sure why that has been now added, but I anticipate it may be for situations exactly like this, where an offender is on a video link. Do you say that that paperwork should be provided to Mr Pejakovski at the - because it would have to be provided to him at the prison, or do you say having made those orders, I can deal with it without seeking an acknowledgement of receipt of that paperwork?
117MR ANDERSON: I haven't considered the matter, Your Honour, and I just can't express a helpful view, I apologise.
118HER HONOUR: That's all right. Well look I'll have my staff I think then provide that via the prison, so that that can be provided to Mr Pejakovski. What I'll do is I'll indicate that I don't seek an acknowledgement today as he has not received that paperwork, but that it will be provided to him in due course.
119MR ANDERSON: Yes, Your Honour.
120HER HONOUR: All right thank you very much. Any issues to raise counsel?
121MR ANDERSON: No, Your Honour.
122HER HONOUR: All right, thank you very much. Mr Anderson, I'll ask my staff to leave you on the link with Mr Pejakovski so that you can talk that through with him, so he's clear.
123MR ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honour.
124HER HONOUR: All right, thank you very much, we'll now adjourn.
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