Director of Public Prosecutions v Kueth

[2017] VCC 1368

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised
Not Restricted
Suitable for Publication

AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION

CR-17-00904

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

JOSHUA KUETH

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JUDGE:	HER HONOUR JUDGE COHEN
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:	8 September 2017
DATE OF SENTENCE:	22 September 2017
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Kueth
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2017] VCC 1368

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:  Sentencing

Catchwords:  Young offender; armed robbery of jewellery store; attempted armed robbery of tobacco store; reckless conduct endangering life (driving)

Legislation Cited: Sentencing Act 1991
Sentence:                  TES: 23 months in youth detention.

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APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions	Mr C. Thomson	OPP
For the Accused	Ms M. Tittensor	Galbally & O’Bryan

HER HONOUR: 

1Joshua Kueth, you have pleaded guilty to one charge each of theft, armed robbery, attempted armed robbery and reckless conduct endangering life.  You have also agreed to have heard in this court, and have pleaded guilty to, a summary charge of driving whilst disqualified. 

2You have also admitted to a prior criminal history to which I shall refer later.

3The maximum penalty for armed robbery is 25 years' imprisonment; for attempted armed robbery it is 20 years' imprisonment; and for each of theft and reckless conduct endangering life it is ten years' imprisonment.  The maximum penalty for the summary charge of driving whilst disqualified as a first offence, as yours was, is 30 penalty units or four months' imprisonment.  These maximum penalties are an indication of the comparative objective seriousness with which Parliament, on behalf of the community, regards offences of the nature of each of these.

4All of these charges arise out of your conduct on 14 November last year.  In company with at least three other people, in the middle of the day, you travelled to Lalor in a stolen green Commodore sedan.  That car had been stolen the previous month, and your driving of it at least later that day constitutes Charge 1 of theft, because you drove it knowing that it had been stolen, even though there is nothing to indicate that you participated in the actual theft.

5A little before 1 pm on 14 November 2016, three of your group entered a jeweller's store in May Road, Lalor, with faces covered, and two were carrying crowbars.  One stayed at the door while the other two used crowbars to smash two jewellery cabinets, and as the store owner moved towards them waving a pole to chase them out, one of the group reached into one of the cabinets and stole some items.  The third person who entered the store had been standing watch at the door.  This all occurred with three customers present in the shop.  A fourth offender stayed in the green Commodore, collected the three as they ran out of the shop, and drove them away.  Your participation in those events constitutes Charge 2 of armed robbery. 

6I have watched CCTV footage of this incident, and although there are no victim impact statements from any of the customers or shop staff present, it is an incident that would have shocked and frightened those present at the time and which no one should have to experience.

7Less than two hours later the same group in the same green car approached a tobacco supply shop in Preston.  Three entered the shop, with faces covered and crowbars, and approached an employee and demanded that he open the shop safe.  That employee went to the back of the shop, armed himself with a pole and chased the offenders out of the shop.  CCTV footage from that store shows that one of those offenders wore a dark hooded jumper and the other two were wearing similar clothing to that worn in the Lalor incident.  The employee of that store saw the offenders run out of the store and get into a bright green Holden Commodore, and saw that there was another male sitting in the driver's seat.  Those events are the subject of Charge 3 of attempted armed robbery.

8Shortly after that incident, highway patrol police saw the green Commodore travelling along Banksia Street, Heidelberg and followed until Police Air Wing took over observation about ten minutes later.  The vehicle was observed by Police Air Wing approximately half an hour later in Springvale, and then was followed from Dandenong to Little River, where it turned back towards the Princes Freeway.  By this stage you were driving that car.  Police attempted to stop the car and put spiked stop sticks on Little River Road, but you attempted to avoid the stop sticks by veering to the left and only one tyre was deflated.  Nevertheless, with police in pursuit, you continued driving, reaching speeds up to 130 kilometres per hour on the Princes Freeway.  The front driver's side tyre which had been punctured by the stop sticks disintegrated, and you appeared to lose control at times, but continued driving with that wheel on its bare rim and refused to pull over when police indicated. 

9You drove in a manner that was dangerous to yourself, your passengers and other road users until you eventually stopped on the Westgate Bridge when police surrounded the car.  They found you and two co-offenders all sitting in the back seat and arrested you all.  The driving of the vehicle in the manner described is the subject of Charge 4 of reckless conduct endangering life.

10You were, at the time, disqualified from driving pursuant to an order made at Dandenong Children's Court on 15 January 2016, and that is the basis for the summary charge of driving whilst disqualified.

11Police found gloves, jumpers and tracksuit pants in the vehicle, and also crowbars and items of clothing such as hooded tops and a bandanna. 

12You were subsequently interviewed by police.  You told them that the grey jacket found in the car was yours.  In relation to the driving, you said it was difficult to steer the vehicle and the brakes were not responding.  You said you were going really fast, but also said that you were really trying not to hurt anyone and that that is why you stopped near the bridge.

13In your favour, you made some admissions to police and pleaded guilty to these charges.  That did not occur initially, that is, the plea of guilty, but there were apparently other more serious charges against you at that stage. I accept that by eventually pleading guilty to this set of charges, there is still utilitarian value in saving the community the time and cost of disputed hearings and saving witnesses having to come to court. By your pleas of guilty, you have acknowledged responsibility for your offending.  As for remorse, I accept that by the time you pleaded guilty you were actually feeling some real remorse. This was reflected in the fact of the plea of guilty, but more so, in my view, in your other behaviour to which I shall refer shortly.  Your pleas of guilty entitle you to some leniency in your sentence which I shall specify later.

14I am told that the two other youths arrested with you have been dealt with in the Children's Court.  Mr Madul pleaded guilty to aggravated burglary, rather than armed robbery, for the jewellery shop events at Lalor, and was not charged with reckless conduct endangering life, as he was not driving the vehicle during the police pursuit.  I am told he was sentenced to be placed on probation for six months.  Mr Albero pleaded guilty to the same first three charges as you, but again was not the reckless driver of the car.  He was sentenced to a total effective term of 12 months in a youth justice centre.

15As you were more than a year older than each of them, you are facing charges as an adult in this court.  You are, however, still only 19 years of age and were aged 18 at the time of the offending. I take into account that sentencing principles require me to consider rehabilitation as important in your sentence, although, given your prior criminal history, not necessarily as the primary purpose.  I shall discuss these considerations in more detail after I have turned to your personal circumstances and history. 

16As I am unaware of whether your two co-offenders had any relevant previous offending, the ability to compare your role with theirs, and your culpability with theirs, is more difficult, but in any event, as you are being sentenced as an adult, some different sentencing principles apply and considerations of parity become much less persuasive. 

17I must assess both the objective seriousness of this offending and the subjective seriousness of your role in it.  As I have already said, the maximum penalties reflect that these charges, in particular armed robbery and attempting it, but also theft and reckless conduct endangering life, are regarded by Parliament as serious offences.  In both the armed robbery and attempted armed robbery, staff in shops that sell relatively valuable items were confronted in the middle of the day by three offenders with their faces disguised or covered and at least some carrying crowbars as offensive weapons.  In the Lalor incident there were other customers present who were subjected to the fright of such an incident, and potential harm.  The fact of three offenders entering the stores, their faces covered, and the fact of one offender remaining in a car for the
get-away, reflects a degree of planning of these crimes.  I regard these as more serious examples of the offence of armed robbery, or attempted armed robbery, than those frequently seen in this court where a single offender has spontaneously confronted an attendant at a convenience store, or similar, seeking cash from the till, often late at night when other customers are less likely to be present.  That is not to say that what are called “soft target” instances of armed robbery are not in themselves serious, but I regard the present instances as more serious as they reflect some planning and deliberate targeting of businesses that are likely to carry more valuable stock. 

18From a subjective point of view, I note that the prosecution is not in a position to specify which role you performed in either the armed robbery or attempted armed robbery, except to say that you were one of the group of offenders.  Although you admitted to police that the grey jacket found in the car was yours, which may by description relate to one of the offenders in the second incident at the tobacco store, it is also consistent that you were the driver who stayed with the car. I sentence you on the basis that you were one of the group of offenders for both of these incidents, and so were aware of what was planned, and that included the entering of stores in the middle of the day, carrying crowbars as a threat, with the intention to steal from those businesses.

19So far as the charge of reckless conduct endangering life is concerned, I regard this instance of that offence as of significant seriousness.  To travel at such speed on a busy highway where not only you, your own passengers, but occupants of other vehicles were put at risk, shows a reckless disregard for the safety of everyone concerned, including a lot of strangers using that road.  That you were doing so in an attempt to evade police increases the blameworthiness, in my view, and especially after one tyre had been punctured by the stop sticks.  To say that you stopped on the Westgate Bridge because you were trying not to hurt anyone is to overlook that you had tried to avoid stopping and driven recklessly for a considerable distance before you did stop.  That you were disqualified from driving at the time constitutes another offence.  It also reflects that the magistrate who made that order was right to do so. 

20I am told that the reason you engaged in all of this offending was that you had lapsed into repeating prior use of the drug, methylamphetamine, and were spending time with people with whom you had previously been involved and whom you knew were, as you call it, “doing crimes”. 

21I am told that a week before this offending occurred, two of your close friends were involved in a very serious motor vehicle collision in which one died and the other was very seriously injured.  You had been to the funeral of the friend who had died.  You were said to have been not in a good frame of mind as a result of these matters, and that carried through to the day of this offending. 
I find it impossible to understand why mourning the death of a friend who had been killed in a serious motor vehicle collision would lead you to drive in a manner highly likely to repeat such a tragedy.  If the confronting reality of one friend dying in such circumstances and another being very seriously injured, was not sufficient to make you realise the risks involved in reckless driving, it is hard to see what could bring you to that realisation. 

22I turn now to your personal circumstances.  You are now aged 19.  You were born in Khartoum, Sudan, the second youngest of your parents' ten children.  After the family was displaced by the civil war there and had sought refuge in Egypt, you came with your family to Australia, aged about five.  The family initially settled in Adelaide, but I am told that your childhood there was not particularly happy or stable.  There was domestic violence between your parents, substance abuse by your mother, and both of your parents suffered mental health illness.  I am told that there was also both physical and emotional harm upon the children, including you, and child protection authorities intervened on several occasions.  You and your younger sister were removed from the home and placed in foster care on more than one occasion.

23I am told that you are particularly close with two of your sisters and that your sister, Martha, who is 11 years older than you, is somewhat of a mother figure to you, and you have lived with her at one stage.  She has also been the contact person for you between the family and child protection authorities originally, and of recent years with the Youth Justice authorities. 

24I am told you commenced primary school in Adelaide and were in Grade 2 or 3 when the family moved to Victoria.  The family spoke the Nuer language at home, but you learnt English and could participate well enough at school.  You dropped out of school during Year 11, and although later that year attempted to resume your studies, that apparently did not last long.  During more recent months in a youth justice centre you have apparently engaged very well in educational classes, and have completed a significant amount of work towards your Intermediate VCAL certificate.

25I am told that you may have been exposed to some substance abuse at home from an early age.  I am also told that you were about 15 or 16 when you began to associate with others outside of the school group of friends who used drugs - that is the group outside of school used drugs - and you started smoking marijuana and within a year were also using ice.  Clearly drug abuse has been connected with your criminal history.

26You had five appearances before the Children's Court before the current offending, and one before the Magistrates' Court.  At age 16 you were first before the Children's Court on a number of charges ranging from theft to affray and unlawful assault.  You were first placed on a youth supervision order for eight months, which you breached by further offending.  The youth supervision order was confirmed twice until you were eventually re-sentenced for those matters to two months in youth detention.  By then you had been placed on a youth attendance order for other offending, which you also breached, as a result of which you were sentenced to ten months' detention in YJC.  The last sentence in the Children's Court was for aggravated burglary, theft of two motor vehicles, driving unlicensed, handling stolen goods, four contraventions of bail conditions and possessing cannabis.  Your total sentence to YJC at that stage I believe was ten months, although elsewhere it is recorded as 12, but on my reckoning ten, and you were granted youth parole on 23 May 2016.

27I am told that when you were granted youth parole, you returned to live with your parents and those siblings still at home, and this was regarded as a supportive arrangement, with your family aware of your situation and providing support, and there was liaison with youth justice supervision through your sister Martha.

28Your initial engagement was positive, and Ms Bridget McGeoch, who was your supervising worker, found you polite and honest and open in discussing all aspects of your life.  You attended most scheduled appointments for supervision and were also engaging well in drug and alcohol counselling, until the worker for the drug and alcohol counselling assigned to you left and you struggled to build a rapport with the next worker.  It seems that at about that stage you relapsed into drug use.  You failed to attend six supervision appointments in the month leading up to the commission of the offences with which I am dealing.  You advised Ms McGeoch that at that time you relapsed into substance use and ceased attending your youth justice appointments as you did not want her to know that you had relapsed. The warning process was initiated, that is under the youth parole system, but had not progressed far before you were remanded on the day of these offences and you have remained in custody ever since, mostly in youth detention, but also a salutary period of two and a half to three months in adult custody.

29Since you have been back in custody there have been only limited opportunities for your family to visit you, given their difficulty in arranging transport, and especially over the last few months. You have been keeping yourself somewhat isolated in YJC so as to avoid other youths who might undermine your resolve to reform yourself.  The fact that your family has not been able to visit much has left you relatively isolated, although you do contact them by telephone. 

30You were arrested and remanded for these offences on 14 November last year.  Eight days later you were sentenced in Melbourne Children's Court for two armed robberies and two thefts of motor vehicles.  Sorry, it was recorded as Melbourne Children's Court, but it is probably Magistrates' Court by last November. 

31MS TITTENSOR:  I think it was still the Children's Court, because it was ‑ ‑ ‑

32HER HONOUR:  Anyway, eight days after your remand for these matters, you were sentenced for two armed robberies and two thefts of motor vehicles, which you had committed in 2015 before serving your previous period in YJC.  At that stage you were placed at Malmsbury where there were already growing tensions, and when those escalated in January of this year, there was violent and damaging behaviour by many young detainees and you were caught up in that. 

33I am told that you in fact called Ms McGeoch during the disruption, seeking her help, and she assisted you to think it through and encouraged you to surrender yourself, and I am told that you were the first to surrender yourself and that that happened despite there being pressure from other youths not to do so.

34Following that, you, like others, were transferred to Port Phillip Prison, which you found very confronting, having contact with much more hardened prisoners.  You found that you had much less access to education than you had at Malmsbury - in fact, only once a week, and less than a whole day. 

35I am told that you also had some very distressing experiences, overhearing an assault by a prisoner on another, and being the subject of an approach by another prisoner, which you did not fully understand at the time until discussing it with Ms McGeoch afterwards.  Ms McGeoch, who visited you there, became concerned for your mental health, and advised staff there.  You have told Ms McGeoch and your lawyers that during your time in adult prison you recognised that that could be your long-term future if you did not change your life.

36You were returned to Malmsbury in March of this year after being sentenced for your participation in the criminal damage, that sentence being made concurrent with the other sentence that had been imposed last November.

37On your return to Malmsbury, you were referred to a psychologist and have been having sessions regularly, and are reported as appearing motivated to continue weekly sessions and also eager to complete group
psycho-educational programs.

38You have also applied yourself assiduously to academic programs, attending five hours of schooling per day, and are described by the campus principal as having been an exceptional student across all subjects.  You are said to engage actively and meaningfully in a wide cross-section of the curriculum, thriving in reading classrooms, often taking the lead by reading aloud for the group, and in creative or physical pursuits, also doing very well.  The principal gives you a glowing report and says you should genuinely feel proud of your achievements at Parkville College in your own achievements and in the example you set for others.  I am told that you are also on the Youth Council at Malmsbury, and are seen as a positive influence on other youths, not just within the reading classes, but generally.

39In light of this very promising progress, in your recognising and applying yourself to change your life, I requested a pre-sentence report as to your suitability for a further term in youth detention.  That report by Ms McGeoch analyses why she considers you are eligible under both of the alternative criteria under the Act, that is, that there are reasonable prospects for your rehabilitation, and that you are particularly impressionable, immature or likely to be subject to undesirable influences in an adult prison.  I accept those conclusions.  In particular, I am impressed by what I think are genuinely reasonable prospects for your rehabilitation.  As to how immature or impressionable you are, I do not have as much information, but I am satisfied that you are likely to be subject to undesirable influences if sentenced to an adult prison.

40In deciding your sentence, I have taken into account the principle of totality.  Basically you have spent all but six months since January last year in custody, and you are currently serving a 20 month sentence for similar offending committed in 2015, and a further month on top of because of your involvement in damaging property at Malmsbury.  I also take into account as part of the application of totality, that although I am sentencing you for five offences, there is some overlap in that they all arose on the same afternoon, and there is some overlap as between the driving and the summary charge, and all were committed apparently in the same company.

41That means that I am required to consider the overall likely time that you will be in custody for the totality of the offending that has gone before, and for which you are currently serving sentences together with those for which I am sentencing you.  I take into account that the sentence should not be so crushing as to discourage you from looking forward to a better and more stable and responsible life when you are released on parole, and also taking into account how proportionately long your time in custody will be given your age.  That has led to some moderation of the terms I am going to impose.

42The sentencing purposes to be applied in your case are different in two main ways from those applied to your co-offenders or back when you were last sentenced in the Children's Court.

43Sentencing a young offender in the Children's Court, general deterrence does not apply, that is, for a sentence to send a message to try to deter others tempted to engage in similar behaviour. The nature of the current offences all call for general deterrence to be a significant sentencing factor, and to convey the community's fulsome disapproval of each aspect of this offending. 

44In the Children's Court there are a number of ways that priority should be given to keeping a young offender amongst his or her family, if there are such supports, engaged in education and also to promote rehabilitation.  While you no longer fall to be sentenced under those specific principles, your age still attracts some priority to be given to your rehabilitation and I regard education as part of that. 

45As you committed these offences only six months after being granted parole from youth justice, and lapsed back into drug abuse and mixing with people you knew would commit crimes, there is also a need for your sentence to have a component of specific deterrence.  Based on what I have been told of your current resolve to stay clear of both drugs and bad company, and that you are isolating yourself from that company that might break that resolve, I have moderated the need for that sentencing purpose, that is, specific deterrence, because you seem to have reached that recognition already, and to be applying it to yourself.

46Given the seriousness and nature of the offending, that it occurred within six months after you had served more than six months in youth detention and were on youth parole, and that you had relapsed into drug use and mixing with people you knew would be committing crimes, I consider that this offending at the time it was committed should attract little leniency apart from the plea of guilty.  If it were not for the several significant aspects of what has occurred since, I would have had little hesitation in imposing a sentence of imprisonment, which would have meant adult prison. However, I do accept that in the last ten months there have been significant changes in your circumstances and attitude.

47First, I accept that the months you spent in adult custody were a very salutary lesson to you, confronting in what you saw and experienced, and that you realised from that what was ahead of you if you continued to commit the type of offences you had been doing. 

48Secondly, your attitude and behaviour since being back in youth detention at Malmsbury has impressed all of those who worked with you - your own youth justice worker, Ms McGeoch; also the head of the Parkville College; and also the psychologist who has been counselling you.  That reflects that you are seriously applying yourself to studies and to programs to assist you to stay out of criminal trouble in the future and to build a responsible life for yourself.

49Thirdly, I take into account from what has happened since the actual offending that the other sentences that have been imposed in the meantime have not only kept you in YJC, but have a considerable time still to run.  That, of course, is all dependent on what the Youth Parole Board decides.

50In light of the very promising engagement you have shown in your studies and rehabilitation in the last six months, and given the recommendations in the pre-sentence report as to your eligibility and suitability for further time in the youth justice system, I have decided that you should be given that opportunity.  At the age of 19, this might be the last time there is available the option of youth detention, so if you do not take advantage of it now, not only the schooling available and the rehabilitation programs, but also the supervision and programs through youth parole. If you do relapse into further offending of similar type, it is likely that sentences of adult imprisonment and of considerable length will follow.

51I accept that you are currently very well motivated and seem to realise that you must not waste this opportunity.  It is ultimately in not only your own and your family's best interests, but also those of the community in general, that you do apply yourself and be assisted to apply yourself, to qualify to obtain employment, and also learn how to avoid relapsing into use of drugs and re-joining the company with whom you offended.  That is how you can build a responsible and satisfying life for yourself.

52The sentences I impose may seem to take relatively little account of the need for general deterrence, community denunciation, community safety or specific deterrence given your past history and the nature of the offending, but as I have said, that is because of the circumstances which have occurred since you committed these offences and what can be seen of the changes in your attitudes since.  You are still only 19 years of age, and it is in the community's interests, as I have already said, that you get the chance to address the factors that led to this offending to enable you to try to build a responsible and stable adult life.

53Would you stand now, please.

54Joshua Kueth, you are sentenced as follows.

55On the charges on the indictment, on Charge 1, theft of a motor vehicle, two months in youth detention.

56On Charge 2, armed robbery, 18 months in youth detention.

57On Charge 3 of attempted armed robbery, 16 months in youth detention.

58On Charge 4, reckless conduct endangering life, eight months in youth detention.

59I direct that three months of the sentence on Charge 3 and two months of the sentence on Charge 4 be served cumulatively on each other and on the sentence on Charge 2, making a total effective sentence of 23 months, that is, in youth detention.

60I declare eight days in custody in relation to these matters as reckoned served and direct that that be noted in court records.

61On the summary charge of driving whilst disqualified, you are to be detained in youth detention for one month.  That will be wholly concurrent with the other sentences imposed today on the indictment.  On that charge, that is, driving whilst disqualified, any driver's licence held by you is cancelled and you are disqualified from obtaining a driver's licence for 18 months effective from today.

62In case there is any doubt, the terms of youth detention that I am imposing today total 23 months starting today.  That means that the total effective sentence from today runs concurrently with the other sentences that you are serving but will last longer, in effect making, on my calculations - sorry, I have got a question mark here, I did not go back and check it - 12 months effectively cumulative.  But I will check that in a moment.  I am not sure that it is.  It may be 11 months.  I am just trying explain.

63Because where the Act deems concurrency and the sentences start today, the total sentence I am imposing is 23 months and ‑ ‑ ‑

64MS TITTENSOR:  I think - sorry, Your Honour.

65HER HONOUR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ ten months, I think, has already been served of the
21 months.

66MS TITTENSOR:  I will explain it to my client, Your Honour.

67HER HONOUR:  Yes, all right.

68MS TITTENSOR:  If it's 23 months from today ‑ ‑ ‑

69HER HONOUR:  Yes.

70MS TITTENSOR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ that sentence ought to be over in August in 2019 ‑ ‑ ‑

71HER HONOUR:  That's right.

72MS TITTENSOR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ which is effectively a year more than the current sentence.

73HER HONOUR:  That effectively is approximately - so my 12 months was- - -

74MS TITTENSOR:  Yes.

75HER HONOUR:  I thought I had worked it out, but I just did a double-take when I saw it.  All right. 

76Now it will be up to the Youth Parole Board to decide when to grant parole, and I do not set any minimum term.

77I was also asked to make a disposal order, which I have not yet seen, but ‑ ‑ ‑

78MR THOMSON:  I have got copies of that for Your Honour.

79HER HONOUR:  All right, thank you.  I will have a look at that.  It is disposal of ‑ ‑ ‑

80MR THOMSON:  The items in the car basically, Your Honour.

81HER HONOUR:  Yes.  I will make that order.  It seems appropriate that all of those tools of the offending effectively are ordered to be disposed of as set out in the standard order.

82I am required to state, pursuant to s.6AAA, what the sentences would have been had you not pleaded guilty to all of these charges but been found guilty of each of these charges after a trial.  Now, as usual, that is an artificial exercise, as not all other factors are likely to have been the same, and I note especially the attitude to rehabilitation that you have shown over the last six months which has been a significant factor and may well not have been shown or able to be read from your behaviour had you not pleaded guilty, because the plea of guilty is an acceptance of responsibility for your offending.  Nevertheless, I state that on the indictment charges I would have imposed a total effective sentence of four years' imprisonment with a non-parole period of two years and eight months.

83Now the summary charge would not have been heard in this court without a plea of guilty, but if I had dealt with it, hypothetically, on an appeal against a conviction and found you guilty, I would have imposed a term of three months' imprisonment, one month cumulative on the sentences on the indictment.  As
I say, those matters are hypothetical.

84Now is there anything I have overlooked?

85COUNSEL:  No, Your Honour.

86HER HONOUR:  All right.  Take a seat, Mr Kueth, while the orders are prepared. 

87MS TITTENSOR:  May I approach my client, Your Honour?

88HER HONOUR:  Yes.

89MS TITTENSOR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ just to clarify - to tell him ‑ ‑ ‑

90HER HONOUR:  Yes.

91MS TITTENSOR:  Thank you.

92HER HONOUR:  I will leave the Bench but wait nearby to sign the order as quickly as possible.  It just needs to go through the system.  All right.  Do you want to talk - you have spoken with your client?

93MS TITTENSOR:  Yes, I have explained the sentence to him, Your Honour.

94HER HONOUR:  All right.  Could Mr Kueth be removed from the courtroom, please.

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