Director of Public Prosecutions v Kopsidis

[2016] VCC 1297

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised
(Not) Restricted
Suitable for Publication

AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION

CR 16-00081

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

KLINT KOPSIDIS
JESSE GOOSEY

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JUDGE:	HIS HONOUR JUDGE PILGRIM
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:	20, 28 July 2016
DATE OF SENTENCE:	1 September 2016
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Kopsidis & Anor
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2016] VCC 1297

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:
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Legislation Cited:
Cases Cited:
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APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions	Ms T. Saville	OPP
For Accused Kopsidis	Mr J. Jassar	James Dowsley & Associates
For Accused Goosey	Mr N. Power	James Dowsley & Associates

HIS HONOUR:

1Mr Kopsidis and Mr Goosey, I hope you can hear me.  I am struggling with a cold I suspect but you will remain seated until I tell you to stand.

2Mr Kopsidis, you have pleaded guilty to one count of aggravated burglary and one count of possessing a firearm whilst prohibited.  Mr Goosey, you have pleaded guilty to one count of aggravated burglary and one count of causing injury intentionally.  You have each heard the prosecutor tell this court that the maximum sentence for aggravated burglary is that of 25 years' imprisonment.  The maximum sentence for the offence of possession of a firearm is 10 years' imprisonment or a fine of 1200 penalty units, that relates to you Mr Kopsidis, not to Mr Goosey and the maximum sentence for the offence of causing injury intentionally is that of 10 years' imprisonment, that applies to you Mr Goosey, not to you Mr Kopsidis.

3These maximum sentences should indicate to you that these are indeed very serious offences, particularly the offence of aggravated burglary.  For having pleaded guilty, I will impose a lesser sentence than I otherwise would have imposed, in other words you receive a discount of sentence for having pleaded guilty. 

4I quote directly from the prosecutor's opening comments.  The complainants in this matter were Baudine Wellman and Melissa Morritt.  In the opening comments the prosecutor said this.  It was on Saturday 11 April 2015 at approximately 3 am in the morning.  Both complainants were in bed asleep. They were woken by each of you forcing entry into the house or into the bedroom and when you entered the bedroom, Mr Goosey you yelled, "Get up cunt, get up" before then using a taser on Wellman to his neck or upper body area.  This caused an enormous shock to Wellman and also caused a shock to Morritt.

5Wellman yelled out, "What the fuck are you doing?" and kicked you Mr Goosey which caused you to fall backwards towards the built-in robe.  You Mr Kopsidis then hit Wellman on the leg with a small bat and said, "Where's my amp and guitar?" amp being a-m-p and guitar.  Mr Kopsidis, you then continued to hit Wellman to the head with a bat.  Morritt observed that Wellman appeared to be stunned and his body went limp.

6Mr Kopsidis, you again hit Wellman to the legs and foot a number of times before Wellman told you that the guitar was at another house.  Both of you  then left the house and told the complainants not to call the police.  Mr Wellman suffered a number of injuries including abrasions to his forehead, bruising to his left foot and ankle and swelling and tendonitis to his right foot and a suspected fracture to his fourth metatarsus.

7Relative to you Mr Kopsidis, it was on Monday 20 April that police conducted a search of your home, then in 31 Sydney Street, Cobram.  During the search, police located the barrel and firing mechanism of a centre fire rifle in the spare bedroom.  The serial number had been removed.  Police also located a bag containing a magazine and ammunition for the rifle in the master bedroom.

8You were arrested and conveyed to the Cobram Police Station for the purposes of recording a record of interview. During the interview you stated Wellman had stolen your daughter's guitar and amplifier.  You denied entering the premises with Mr Goosey and denied assaulting Wellman with either a bat or a taser.  You stated that you went to the Wellman's property between 5 pm and 6 pm on another occasion and had an argument with Wellman whereby you demanded your guitar back and headbutted Wellman to the face.  You further stated you received information which allowed you to recover your guitar.

9Turning to you Mr Goosey, it was some six or seven months later where, on 25 November 2015, you attended at the Cranbourne Police Station for the purposes of a record of interview.  During the interview you stated:

"I was at Klint's house and he just brought up that this bloke owed him money for stole his daughter's guitar or something like that.  He suggested we went around there and I sort of agreed to it. Went around there and kicked his doors in.  I had a taser and Klint, he bashed him with a baseball bat."

10You Mr Goosey also admitted to using ice at the time and that you made the taser.  Mr Kopsidis, there is some background for you having committed this offence.  Apparently you discovered that a burglary had been committed at your home whilst you were away on a weekend.  On returning home, you discovered items had been stolen from your home, among which was a guitar, an amplifier and your daughter's underwear.

11You became incensed that these items were stolen, in particular your daughter's lingerie and other items.  They were, as I understand it - at least some if not all of them - presents that she had received.  You formed the belief that the victim Wellman was the person responsible so you then became the vigilante, so to speak, and took the law into your own hands.

12I must be careful, like I said earlier, what I say about Wellman.  However, I have the distinct impression that this man is of very poor character.  At the end of the day however every person of bad character or otherwise has the right to live in peace in their own home.  Your invasion of this house when armed at 3 am in the morning was monstrous.  That relates to both of you of course.

13Your counsel, of course I am speaking to you Mr Kopsidis - your counsel
 Mr Jassar said, and I quote directly.  The action was unplanned.  You had been drinking alcohol on that day.  Apparently you indicated to your counsel that ten cans of bourbon had been consumed leading up to the offending when your friend Jesse Goosey turned up.  Then the pair of you decided to go and confront Wellman and ask him for the items back.  The intention was to recover your daughter's Christmas presents.  That is the end of the quotation of what Mr Jassar said when addressing me back in Shepparton.

14The possession of the weapon count relates to you being found in possession of a barrel of what obviously, when complete, was a long arm rifle.  You had been commissioned to restore this barrel for a friend, indeed the barrel was in some form of clamp so as to polish that barrel.  Obviously you did not understand, and not many persons would understand, that at this time the barrel falls within the definition of a firearm.  A portion of a firearm still falls within the definition of a complete firearm.  You had been informed that this weapon was of sentimental value to your friend and obviously when it was in its form when seized, it could not fire a projectile. 

15Mr Jassar refers to the report of Ms Deborah Bennett, a forensic psychologist where in that report the psychologist sets out your personal history and background.  I quote from a portion of that report.  "Mr Kopsidis informed me" this is Dr Bennett writing about you and I am quoting directly:

"Mr Kopsidis informed me he was born in Melbourne and spent nearly all of his life living in the Goulburn Valley region.  He described his childhood as pretty good and largely unremarkable.  He advised that he has an older brother Kane who, during their formative years, was his best friend.  He stated that Kane now suffers from substance abuse problems and this has created a significant rift between them.  He also reported that he nevertheless enjoys a really good relationship with his father, a retired electrician and his mother who has worked in a variety of jobs.  He advised that he visits his parents on a daily basis and they have both been a significant emotional and practical support for him.  Nevertheless he did describe a period of conflict between him and his mother during a time he feels that she sided with the mother of Mr Kopsidis' daughter during a bitter child custody dispute.  He also described a very close relationship with his maternal grandmother and he also described her as his best friend during his formative years".

16That is your Gran.  As I mentioned earlier, you have a daughter who is now ten years of age.  You enjoy a very loving relationship with this young lady.  You have regular contact with her as Mr Jassar has just said, and highly responsible I suggest as a father, you do not want her visiting you whilst in custody, but you still maintain a very good relationship with her.  You said to Dr Bennett in fact you declared Kyla to be the whole world, my best friend.  That is what you said to Bennett.

17You attended local primary school and secondary colleges in Nathalia concluding your VCE.  Your score in VCE was rewarding in that your VCE result placed you second within the district, a fact no doubt that you are still proud of.  You have been a hardworking and industrious man, working for numerous well know companies in the Shepparton region.  You are currently self employed as a mechanic.

18You told Dr Bennett, "If it's broken I can fix it".  From what is reported by
Dr Bennett, the breakdown of the relationship between you and Kyla's mother has been or was then devastating.  I infer you are still struggling with the deceit you say emanated from that woman.  You had a further spectacular relationship with Emma.  Among other things you suffered significant injuries, particularly to your head.  This is what Bennett said about that:

"He advised that Emma hit him twice in the head. 'I let her because I wanted to take her pain away'.  He stated the blows fractured his skull and broke some of his teeth and split the skin on his face, the scars of which are still visible.  He reported he was hospitalised for two days as a result of these injuries before discharging himself."

19That is the quotation of what you told Dr Bennett.  I say this, with respect Mr Kopsidis, it was an incredibly stupid thing to do to allow that woman to take out her frustrations on you when apparently she was a deceitful person.  You apparently abused alcohol on the day of this offending but it would seem, from Dr Bennett's report, that you now have alcohol and drug related matters under control.

20Dr Bennett at length reports on the head injuries and other trauma that you have encountered.  I again quote from her report, this is what she said:

"Mr Kopsidis informed me that it was in 2011 that Emma hit him in the head with this wood and in 2014 he saw a neurosurgeon at St Vincent's Hospital.  He maintained that there are periods usually of 5 to 6 seconds' duration where he loses the ability to recognise faces and cannot remember where he is.  He stated these experiences promote a feeling of general confusion and this can happen up to ten times a day.  He instructed me he has moments of being blank, suffers migraines periodically and, 'I cannot think as fast as I used to.  You say, I feel frustrated.  I think people think I'm dumb'.  He advised me that he still experiences these same symptoms today.  He informed me that his ability to concentrate is compromised and that while his long term memory is intact, his short term memory has been adversely affected.  He advised his neurological testing led to a diagnosis of epilepsy after very erratic brain activity was observed during the consultation.  He reported he has more recently been prescribe Epilim to treat his epilepsy and that doctors have cautioned him that this particular drug can cause aggression and violence."

21You heard Mr Jassar refer to that a few moments ago.   You occasionally hear of such things where people are burdened with schizophrenia where their medication creates some erratic behaviour and sometimes all too often unfortunately criminal activity.  I read on, this is what you said to Bennett:  "He instructed me that in 2015 while in prison he was physically beaten by prison officers" during that incident where they jumped on your head and resulted in swelling to your brain.   You advised that as a result you temporarily lost your sight and balance and subsequently underwent spinal tap procedure.

22Further to these injuries, you have suffered numerous fractures and discomfort, often related to motor bike accidents.  Dr Bennett traces your forensic history.  Her report will be annexed to these reasons for the information of others if need be.  There are lots of things there about when you have gotten into trouble.  You are aware of them, I am not going to read them out.  But they will be on the record because her report will be attached to these comments.

23Dr Bennett concludes in her report, and I again quote it:

"Even though psychological testing did not reveal self-deceptive enhancement and his score for impression management was only slightly above average, I formed the opinion that Mr Kopsidis demonstrates a false bravado and is prone to exaggeration.  He appears to be black and white in his thinking and to feel it is a weakness to admit vulnerability and/or culpability.  In my opinion, he feels alone and insecure.  He copes with these feelings by over-stating his achievements and the strength of his personal relationship.  I think it is entirely possible that Mr Kopsidis does have alcohol and substance abuse issues and I suggest any future psychological treatment focus on such matters."

24I will come back to that later.  Mr Kopsidis, you have five prior court appearances and many convictions for motor traffic offences.  You were convicted on
27 August 2012 for recklessly causing injury. This offence now before the court involves yet more violence.

25Your counsel Mr Jassar, in his eloquent plea, reveals that you recently served five months' imprisonment and that conviction and sentence is not revealed on your criminal history, so he was revealing a matter that you were in trouble for but I am not treating it as a prior conviction because I am not sure about when the offending occurred.  But in fairness to you and the court, Mr Jassar revealed that.  I will not treat that information as a prior conviction.  I will take into account though the fact that you have served five months and accommodate the principles of totality.  That is a principle of law and if you need to have that explained, I am sure Mr Jassar will speak to you about it.

26Mr Kopsidis, I assure you that I have taken into account all that has been said on your behalf by Mr Jassar.  You have produced five references from family and friends, all speaking of your valued loyalty and friendship.  All referees are of one in saying that this offence is out of character.  Further all referees comment on your loving relationship with your daughter.  Your uncle, Mr Vick, among other thing said this, and I quote:

"I can only hope he has learned from the mistakes he has recently made and can move forward now to become an outstanding person and I am sure he will develop if given another chance."

27I take into account your plea of guilty which is indicative of your remorse.  Indeed one of your referees speaks of your regret and remorse for having committed these offences.  Your prospects of rehabilitation has to be very positive.  You are indeed a very industrious man and highly skilled.  You have the continued support of your parents, both of whom attend court on each of the days that the court has sat, at least this is the third time that I know of.  That demonstrates their support of you.

28I also take into account the fact that you have put your hand up and are working as a billet whilst in custody, apparently in meals delivery or something of that nature, moving shortly into some sort of industry similar to that of Mr Goosey.  I also take into account that you now are burdened with epilepsy and further that you take medication, Epilim, for this illness. There is no need I think to keep repeating that I am conscious of the fact of what this Epilim does to you in terms of aggression.  It is something you are just going to have to manage so that it does not cut loose on you again.  Mr Jassar spoke of it, I recognise it and so too does Dr Bennett.

29I turn now to you Mr Goosey.  You were born on 21 March 1991 in Carlton.  You are now aged 25.  On the date of the offence you were then 24.  Your family moved to Cobram when you were an infant.  You have one older brother Nathan.  Your father is employed as a truck driver and your mother unfortunately is burdened with poor health.

30Initially you attended school, firstly at Cobram Primary School.  Then you commenced secondary college in Cobram for Year 7.  When you turned 13, your family relocated to Sunbury and you attend Sunbury Secondary College to the end of Year 10.  When then aged 15, you commenced an apprenticeship as a motor mechanic with a local dealership.  You remained with that employer and completed your mechanics apprenticeship.

31Shortly thereafter, you moved to Kalorama up in the mountains in 2010 and worked with Lubemobile for approximately 12 months.  Mr Power, your barrister, informs this court and me of course that you have some talent as a football player.  You have played in junior competitions in Cobram before playing in Sunbury at a more senior level.

32You heard me ask about that a few moments ago.  I am not putting you down nor am I endorsing you but I am saying this that often those who are skilled at sport are obviously able to discipline themselves.  You have got to go to training on the hard nights when it is cold, wet and raining and you have got to discipline yourself in terms of your consumption of liquor and drugs if you are going to play at a high level.  That is why I was pursuing whether or not you are still playing.  You are not being condemned because you have given it up.  It is just that that was the interest because, all too often, most high performing sports persons are naturally disciplined so that they can achieve at high levels within

their chosen sport.

33Like many young men, you commenced drinking alcohol after work but then unhappily when aged 16, your older brother Nathan introduced you to illicit substances such as MDMA and eccies.  You also then began experimenting with other drugs including amphetamines, GHB, cocaine and LSD.

34In 2009, when aged approximately 18, you were introduced to methamphetamine.  Initially you smoked methamphetamine rarely.  Indeed you managed to abstain from this insidious drug over some periods of time.  In May of 2012, you and your then partner produced a daughter Holly.  You remained with your partner at that time for approximately four or five years. That relationship ended in 2015, as I understand shortly before the commission of these offences.

35Ultimately you lost the care of Holly when you then lost the plot and went off the rails altogether.  You returned to Cobram at this time from February 2015 to August of 2015.  You used methamphetamine heavily and you were on the road to ruin.

36I pause there because I do not want to harp on or embarrass either of you.  That is not what judges are about, but you have obviously both encountered difficult circumstances with relationships and with children who you love.  When abusing drugs and abusing alcohol and struggling with personal problems, unhappily both of you have attempted to take your own lives which is very sad.  That was the basis of why the delay occurred between when we were last together and now to make sure there was not any ongoing psychiatric issues.  Fortunately both the psychiatrists, being two separate psychiatrists say that there is none, to put it simply.

37On 6 August 2014, you returned to Melbourne and ceased using on that day.  To your credit, you removed yourself from the drug scene.

38I pause there for a moment.  It is often said that when you are in a particular area, not necessarily in the country and not necessarily in Cobram, but the group of persons that you are communicating with and living with and enjoying living with, have all got the same peer group pressures and have got the same bad habits.  All too often it is hard to escape from that scene.  You took it upon yourself to leave that scene and left Cobram, no doubt where friends were and went to the Cranbourne area and from that day forward you have cleaned yourself up.

39You heard me when speaking to Mr Power, make comment that you are to be, I suppose, congratulated if that is the proper word, for the efforts you have done in terms of cleaning yourself up cold turkey without the help of professionals.  It is not often seen.

40For the last 12 months, you have been employed as a technician with USI, an installation company apparently installing advertising signs and things of that nature.

41Mr Goosey, you have resumed contact with Holly, exercising access every second weekend.  Further, you have re-established your relationship with your parents, particularly your father.

42Your father, along with four other people provide glowing references as to your character.  It is no easy task to become drug-free particularly when one uses methamphetamine.

43What I say about methamphetamine is not coming from me, it is coming from what I am told every day in this court, the case preceding you today and every other case this week.  Methamphetamine is extremely addictive.  Methamphetamine, among many other things causes severe damage to the whole psychosis of your brain and the way it works and our community is plagued with this drug.

44Some years ago, you would have never heard of methamphetamine.  It was heroin that we heard of every day.  Hardly is it mentioned now, because methamphetamine apparently is more addictive, you get a better kick from what the drug-users say and is much cheaper than heroin and more available.

45Like with Mr Kopsidis, your parents - I think your father is here, I am not sure, but certainly your parents and friends have been supportive of you in each court appearance.  All of those things are indicative of better prospects for rehabilitation.  Like I said with Mr Kopsidis, you have not been prepared to sit on your backside and do nothing whilst in prison like many people do, but you have got yourself involved as a billet and apparently are now working in an industry at present.  Again, indicative of a prospect of rehabilitation once you are free.

46There is no doubt that you are a hardworking industrious young man and you have significant numbers of friends and family all supporting you at this time.

47Mr Goosey, I assure you I have taken into account all that has been said on your behalf by Mr Power.  I further take into account your plea of guilty which is indicative of your remorse.  I further take into account all that is contained in all the references from your father, from your cousin and friends.

48Your prospect of rehabilitation like with Mr Kopsidis has to be excellent, with your qualifications, work ethic and support from family and friends.

49You most certainly co-operated fully with the investigating police officers when you were interviewed in November 2015 and again for that, you must be given credit.

50I repeat again, the offence that you have been committed for is extremely serious when judged by the maximum gaol sentence that is provided by the Parliament and what is happening in our community at present.  I think I even said - I cannot remember, I get that many cases - you have picked a very bad time to be involved in aggravated burglary when it is spread all over every form of the media.

51In criminal prosecution cases, I am directed that I must take into account the provisions of the Sentencing Act, in particular s.5 wherein it set out that the purpose of sentencing are for just punishment.  The words used,

"The purpose of sentencing is to punish the offender to an extent and in a manner that is just in all the circumstances."

52The next section within the Act directs the Court to general and specific deterrence.  That is, deter you and others from committing the same or similar offences.

53At the same time, the next sub-section speaks of establishing a proper rehabilitation program and scenario and further, the Court must denunciate on behalf of the community, the type of conduct that you have engaged in.

54I pause there for a moment.  I do not think either of you are in need of specific deterrence.  I think you have both recognised that what you have done was completely stupid, completely crazy and it seems to me very stupid in terms of, if the victim is an offender such as I suspect, just not worth it.  Here you are, you are the ones in the dock, not others.

55As I have said and said a number of times, it is very serious and unpleasant behaviour to burst into any persons home in the middle of the night and to assault them.  I have never had a victim that has been tasered before, but certainly I suspect that it is not the sort of thing that you would want to happen again. 

56The sentence that I impose has to dissuade others from ever doing what you do and have done.  You see, your local press will have it written all over I am sure, because that is the way the press works.

57Now there is something else I must say before I get to sentencing.  First of all there is no victim impact statements.  I have kept that until last.  I suspect because the victim does not want to stand up and say what otherwise he might have said.  Morritt might have been able to say something but there is no victim impact statement.  Usually in these circumstances there is.

58The other thing I must take into account and I do not think either of you fully understand what both of the barristers have said and I am going to try and keep it simple and again you may not fully understand what it is about.  We talk about Verdins.  Well what is Verdins?

59Verdins is a case that was held in the courts in this state and in this court and in the Court of Appeal where people were dealt with and the courts have been directed by the Court of Appeal and senior judges in the heirachy or the precedence of the way it works, that one must take into account, if you are burdened with some sort of health problem, well then there must be some sort of moderation of the sentence.

60I assure you I have moderated the sentence to accommodate the Verdins principles because both of you have been wrestling with depression and anxiety, relative to the self-induced drug taking that is occurring and then unfortunate things happen in your life.  You have even gone to dreadful lengths and attempted to take your own lives.  All of this is indicative of mental health issues and that all too often relates to drug abuse including alcohol.

61Now turning to you, Mr Kopsidis, keeping in mind you have got two separate sorts of offences.  Both of you are charged with one offence and then there is a different offence for No.2.

62Count 1, which is the aggravated burglary count, you will be convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment;

63On Count 2, you are convicted and sentenced to one month imprisonment.  That one month is to served concurrently with the 12 months imposed on
Count 1.

64In relation to the time spent in custody, you will be given credit for having served 43 days of imprisonment.  There will be a forfeiture order made in relation to the weapon.  I will come to the community corrections order so these fellows do not have to battle through the parole process.  That is not going to be on the cards.  I am going to create my own parole by imposing a CCO.  I will come back to that in a minute.

65In relation to Mr Kopsidis, taking into account his prior history and forensic history as different to that of Mr Goosey, had Mr Kopsidis pleaded not guilty, I believe I would have sentenced him to at least six years imprisonment with a minimum of four.  So I believe I have given a significant discount to accommodate all of the things that are in his favour.

66Mr Goosey, in relation to Count 1, you too are convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment;

67On Count 2, that is where you tasered this individual, you are also convicted and sentenced to 12 months imprisonment but that sentence is to be served concurrently with the sentence imposed on Count 1.

68Like with Mr Kopsidis, you are to be given credit for having served 43 days of imprisonment.  I will impose a CCO which means you do not have to go through the parole board because parole now is very difficult to get.

69I do not propose to make a forfeiture order in relation to the phone.  I say that for this reason.  Because it was not used in relation to the offending, I do not propose to forfeit it.  But most certainly, the firearm is forfeited.

70I think in Mr Kopsidis' case there is no need for s.464 because he has already given his DNA, is that correct?

71MR JASSAR:  Yes, that is correct, Your Honour.

72HIS HONOUR:  But there is no DNA order yet being made in relation to your client, that is correct is it not, Mr Power?

73MR POWER:  Yes, Your Honour.

74HIS HONOUR:  There will be an order made for s.464ZF and I will explain that to you in a moment.  Now take a seat while I explain the community corrections order.

75The community corrections order will be for 12 months only.  There will be no work component.  I have a personal belief, I have not discussed it with fellow judges, but I believe that it is a double dip.  That is, if a person has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment and then you also impose community work, there is two forms of punishment for the one offence.  So I am not going to impose any form of work commitment on neither of these young men when they are released from custody.

76They are not quite identical.  So I will deal with Mr Goosey first.

77Mr Goosey, the special conditions of the corrections order will be that:

78Section 48D(3)(a), you are to undergo treatment and assessment for drug abuse.  I will explain that in a moment;

7948D(3)(d), treatment and rehabilitation for any medical problem that might exist;

8048D(3)(e), treatment and rehabilitation for any mental health problem that might exist; and

8148D(3)(f), treatment and rehabilitation programs to reduce reoffending.

82What that all means is this, Mr Goosey.  You are assessed to see whether or not you need any help for drug addiction.  It seems to me that the answer to that will be made but you will be assessed.  If they say there is no further treatment required, that is the end of it.  If they say you need some further counselling, then you must undergo the counselling.  If you do not, you are in breach and you will be brought back.

83Do not be upset by the medical and mental health components because they come always where there has been a drug issue, because methamphetamine is well known to be causing psychosis within the brain.  So you are assessed to see whether there is any damage medically or any mental health problems.  If it is clear, end of story.  If you need some treatment, well then you must undergo it.

84The last program is you sit down and listen to the counsellor and they tell you all sorts of alternatives so as to learn how to count to ten and not get involved in something that you should not be involved in.  When I say count to ten, they are not going to teach you how to count from one to ten, but so that you can sit down and reassess before you do something stupid.

85All the same things apply to you, Mr Kopsidis.  The same except they have added alcohol in your instance.  You apparently have not had a drink for a long time, so they do an assessment.  If it is all clear, that is the end of it.  If you need some treatment or counselling, then you must undergo it.

86Again, the same with Mr Goosey.  The same assessment.  If necessary, treatment for drug abuse or drub problems and the mental health and the medical health follow because it is all too often that those that abuse methamphetamine, in particular and other drugs have medical health and mental health problems.

87If it is all clear, end of story.  If you need to attend for some counselling, you must do it.  If you do not, you are in breach and you will be brought back.  The same thing applies to the reoffending programs, so you can learn to count to ten before you go off.

88Yours might be a little more difficult because I suspect that highly probably for the rest of your life, you are going to have to take Epilim.  Somehow you have to manage to control it so it does not put you off on a tangent in the future.

89Are there any other orders sought, Ms Saville?

90MR POWER:  Your Honour did not make a s.6AAA declaration in relation to Mr Goosey.

91HIS HONOUR:  I have got it written here.  For Mr Goosey, five with three.  It is not a very easy task to crystal ball gaze what would I have done, but I believe I would have imposed a sentence, highly probably of five years with a minimum of three.

92MS SAVILLE:  Your Honour, I do not think you declared PSD in relation to
Mr Goosey either.

93HIS HONOUR:  Both persons have got the same.  That is right, is it not?  They have both been in custody for the same time?

94MR JASSAR:  That is correct, sir.

95HIS HONOUR:  I should have said for both people.  Both persons get 43 days pre-sentence detention pursuant to s.18.

96MS SAVILLE:  Thank you, Your Honour.

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