Director of Public Prosecutions v Kavvadas&Anor
[2012] VCC 1145
•7 August 2012
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| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL DIVISION
Case No. CR-12-00324
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| V |
| PETER JAMES TALLIS GREGORY KAVVADAS |
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JUDGE: | HER HONOUR JUDGE CANNON | |
WHERE HELD: | Melbourne | |
DATE OF HEARING: | 18 June 2012 | |
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 7 August 2012 | |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v. Kavvadas&Anor. | |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [20192] VCC 1145 | |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject: CRIMINAL LAW
Catchwords: Sentence – Armed robbery – Youthful offenders – Parity
Cases: Director of Public Prosecutions v. Kandaza & Ors. (2003) VSCA 91.
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APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the Crown | Ms S. Coombes | Solicitor for Public Prosecutions |
| For Accused Tallis For Accused Kavvadas | Ms A. Burnnard Mr B. Annear | Robert Stary Lawyers Robert Stary Lawyers |
HER HONOUR:
1 Peter James Tallis, you have pleaded guilty to three charges of armed robbery. Gregory Kavvadas, you have pleaded guilty to one charge of armed robbery.
2 The maximum penalty for this offence is 25 years' imprisonment, reflecting Parliament's view as to the serious nature of the offence.
3 Ms Coombes for the prosecution opened the matter as follows.
4 In relation to Charge 1, in relation to you Mr Tallis only, at about 3.52 am on 29 November 2011 you entered the 7-Eleven service station on the corner of Kings Road and Main Road West, Kings Park. You, Mr Tallis, wore a white hooded jacket with the hood over your head. Your face was not covered. You walked to the counter, produced a 20 centimetre knife and pointed it at the attendant, Mena Bowles. You said, "I need the money, give me all the money." You then advised the victim not to press the duress button and that you were serious. The victim opened the till and threw approximately $820 in notes onto the counter. You took the money and left the store. The incident was captured on CCTV.
5 In relation to Charge 2, which again concerns only you, Mr Tallis, at about 12.20 am on 7 December 2011 you entered the Caltex Service Station on the corner of Kings Road and Taylors Road, Kings Park. You had on a black hooded jacket with your face visible. You went the counter and asked the attendant, Rana Kalid, the price of a packet of cigarettes. When the victim turned to check the prices you produced a 20 centimetre knife and point it at the victim. You said, "Give me all the money you've got in cash or I'll stab you. I'm just here for the money, I don't want to hurt you but if you're not going to give me the money I'll stab you." The victim was in fear. The victim opened the till and produced $225 in cash. You asked for fifty dollar notes but were told that they were in the safe.
6 You then demanded that the safe be opened but were told that this was not possible. You then asked for the victim's phone and wallet, so the victim complied by taking out his SIM card from the phone, with the intent of passing it over. However, a male entered the store and disturbed you before you took off with the money. Again the incident was captured on CCTV footage.
7 In relation to Charge 3, the third charge of armed robbery to which you have pleaded guilty, Mr Tallis, and the only armed robber to which you have pleaded guilty, Mr Kavvadas, some 20 minutes later on 7 December 2011, at about 12.40 am, you, Peter Tallis, arrived as a passenger in a silver Commodore, registered TJG 695. That car was driven by you, Gregory Kavvadas.
8 Mr Tallis, you entered the 7-Eleven store located at 235 Caroline Springs Boulevard, Caroline Springs, wearing the same clothing worn in the armed robbery committed 20 minutes earlier. You, Mr Tallis, asked the attendant, Sam Jefferson, for a packet of cigarettes. As the victim turned to retrieve these, you, Mr Tallis, produced a 20 centimetre knife and pointed it at him. You said, "I don't want to hurt you, just give me the cash." The victim opened the till and handed you $335 in cash. You took the money and left, running through a nearby car wash. CCTV footage from the car wash depicts you entering and leaving the store and also depicts you, Mr Kavvadas, driving the car which was used in the offence.
9 In terms of the investigation, police were soon in possession of all the relevant CCTV footage and quickly suspected that the armed robberies were all committed by you, Mr Tallis. They executed a search warrant at your premises in Deer Park on 9 December 2011. Although you, Mr Tallis, were not present, police did seize clothing and a knife which was consistent with that described by witnesses. I understand that these were found in the boot of the car parked at the house. A warrant was also executed on the residence of you, Mr Kavvadas, where the silver Commodore was seized.
10 In terms of interviews conducted by the police, you, Mr Tallis, were arrested at 5.00 am on 9 December 2011. You exercised your right to make "no comment" to the allegations put to you. You, Mr Kavvadas, were interviewed on 9 December 2011. You admitted to driving the silver Commodore in question on a regular basis but when questioned about the armed robberies you exercised your right to silence.
11 I shall first refer to a number of matters concerning you, Mr Tallis. You committed three armed robberies, two of which you committed alone and the third of which you committed with Mr Kavvadas. You chose soft targets to be the victims of your offending on each occasion, pointing a knife at each of them and verbally threatening to stab the victim in Charge 2, unless the victim complied with your demand. Although there are no Victim Impact Statements, it is not hard to imagine that your conduct must have been most frightening for each of the victims who were doing no more than trying to earn an honest wage.
12 I was told by your counsel that you offended on the first occasion as you had no money and wanted to see your girlfriend and child, who had travelled to Sydney with the threat of not returning. Their department followed an argument which you had had with your girlfriend. Apparently you had tried to obtain an advance on Centrelink payments to fund the trip but when you had no success you decided to commit the first armed robbery out of desperation. You spent the spoils of this armed robbery on the airfare and on your ten month old son, in a bid to see your girlfriend and your son. You reconciled with your girlfriend but notwithstanding this you committed the two further armed robberies only eight days later. I was told that this was to fund further items for your child.
13 While it might be that the first offence was motivated by an urgent need to see your girlfriend and child, this in no way mitigates the seriousness of your offending. It appears to me that you committed the further offences as you saw armed robberies as being a way to make some quick and easy money. In relation to each of the offences there was a measure of planning, although this was not too sophisticated or elaborate.
14 In relation to Charge 3 you played the dominant and more serious role in this offending, compared with that of Mr Kavvadas whose help you enlisted as the getaway driver, a role which he only became aware of, according to him, just before you left the car to commit the third armed robbery. I did not hear your counsel to disagree with this as being the situation.
15 You were only 18 years old when you committed these offences and you are now 19 years old. You have one prior matter.
16 On 10 January 2011 you were dealt with at the Sunshine Magistrates' Court in respect of one charge of recklessly causing injury, and the charge having been found proved you were released on an accountable undertaking, commencing on 10 January 2011 for a period of six months. You also had a subsequent matter which I was told was low-level shop theft. As you were on bail for the offences before me you were remanded for three or four days in custody and were sentenced to time served in the Magistrates' Court in March this year for this subsequent matter.
17 Ms Burnnard told me that you engaged in the subsequent offending after having another argument with your girlfriend. I factor these matters in when assessing your prospects of rehabilitation and in deciding the appropriate weight I will give to specific deterrence. It is also concerning that you re-offended whilst on bail.
18 Your conduct in relation to the offences before me must be denounced and I must impose a punishment that is just in all the circumstances. There is nothing which reduces your moral culpability but I take into account the contents of a report of David Ball, psychologist, dated 8 June 2012, which indicates that you are intellectually dull and somewhat immature. I also take into account that becoming a father at such a young age and your partner's decline into depression were matters which were overwhelming for you and that it was in these circumstances that you committed the offences.
19 Further, I factor in the following matters referred to by Mr Ball in sentencing you. At p.3 of his report he said this: "Overall Mr Tallis impressed me as a person of generally good judgment who was co-operative, amenable and generally high-functioning. He expressed minimal insight into his offending behaviour and general psychological functioning. He possesses clear consequential thinking and is well capable of planning and executing positive and self-sustaining behaviour."
20 To your credit you entered pleas of guilty at an early stage and you are therefore entitled to a significant discount in the sentence that you would otherwise receive. This is because you have saved the witnesses, especially the victims, the time and trouble of giving evidence and you have saved the community the time and expense of contesting the charges. I am also satisfied that you are remorseful and regretful for your actions and how they might have affected the victims.
21 You have been able to express this to Mr Ball and to Mr Markovski, a youth worker you have known for a number of years.
22 I take into account your background, of which I have been told and which appears in Mr Ball's report, and other materials tendered on your behalf on the plea.
23 Sadly, your father died suddenly when you were 14 years old. I was told that thereafter your mother struggled to cope and it would appear that you may have also. You told Mr Ball that your childhood and family was, to quote you, "a joy", and it is apparent that your supporters in court and the character reference material, it is apparent from these that you have solid family support and the support of your partner, Wanda, who is the mother of your child.
24 Your education endured until Year 10 and you encountered a number of problems along the way, which is unfortunate. I understand that you had considerable sporting ability, in particular, but when you left school you were unable to continue with school sporting activities.
25 I have read the character references provided in support of you from Mr Markovski and Mr Chudashnik, both of whom are youth workers who know you very well and speak highly of you. Mr Chudashnik indicates in his letter that you may need some support in respect of mental health issues. However, these are not sentiments which are echoed by Mr Ball. It is clear from Mr Chudashnik's report and those of Mr Markovski that you are highly regarded and have made significant contributions to the community, including coaching a junior basketball team and contributing your time to assist a number of various charities. You have also run various basketball programs within the Red Skins Basketball Club. You completed the Open Family Australia's leadership and advanced leadership programs and revealed a number of positive qualities whilst undergoing these.
26 You have been living at home with your mother, older sister and younger brother. I understand that you are still in a relationship with Wanda, the mother of your child, but you live at your family home and she lives elsewhere with your child.
27 Since 2009 you have exhibited a fairly solid employment record. In January 2010 you obtained a position at Toll Personnel. I was told that you were not working there at the time that you committed these offences, having ceased work for a period, but that following your release on bail in December 2011 you re-engaged with that employer. I was told that until recently you were actually working two jobs and you used your pay in order to pay board and financially support Wanda and your child.
28 As you are still a young man it is most important that the sentence which I impose maximises your chances at rehabilitation but I must also give appropriate weight to other relevant sentencing considerations. One such consideration is the principle of general deterrence, that is, I must impose a sentence which sends a strong message to others who are tempted to offend as you have that such conduct will not be tolerated. So the sentence which I impose must give strong weight to the need to deter others from behaving as you have.
29 In all of the circumstances I regard your prospects of rehabilitation as being quite good. I make this assessment on the basis of your limited criminal history, strong family and friendship support, sold work ethic and your commitment to your partner and child, as well as your preparedness to take responsibility for your offending at an early stage and express what I accept is genuine remorse. However, I also factor in the subsequent matter which you committed whilst on bail and in the context of yet another argument with your partner. I do have some concerns that you may take some solace in offending when matters in your personal life turn sour. However, on balance, as I have said, your prospects of rehabilitation are quite good. I should also add that you appear to have the continuing tremendous support of people such as Mr Markovski and Mr Chudashnik. Also I accept that your period on remand from 9 December to 16 December 2011 served as a salutary experience for you, although this should be seen in the context of you choosing to re-offend after this and whilst on bail.
30 As I regard your prospects of rehabilitation as quite good, I attach limited weight to specific deterrence, that is, the need to impose a sentence which specifically deters you from committing further offences in the future. Your counsel submitted that a Community Corrections Order ought be imposed in your case and cited a decision of Director of Public Prosecutions v. Kandaza & Ors. (2003) VSCA 91.
31 While I have had regard to the decision, I do not see it as being analogous to your situation, so as to provide appropriate guidance in terms of current sentence practice. That was a case where there were two armed robberies committed on the one occasion and the two young people were threatened by the respondents in the course of the one incident. The offending was said to have occurred on the spur of the moment and in that case the Crown had submitted that a custodial sentence ought be imposed but the manner in which it was to be served was a matter for the learned sentencing judge. The learned sentencing judge imposed a Community Based Order without conviction. The appeal which was brought by the Director of Public Prosecutions took issue with the fact that a non-conviction disposition was imposed. In the specific circumstances of that case, although it is clear that the court regarded the disposition as merciful, it was not held to be manifestly inadequate and was within the sentencing judge's discretion.
32 I have also had regard to the Sentencing Snapshot in relation to armed robber. I am afraid that I am unable to do justice to all sentencing considerations, however, unless I impose a sentence which involves your detention. However, having received a report in respect of your suitability for a Youth Justice Centre, I am satisfied that it is appropriate that such a disposition be imposed rather than one of adult gaol. I shall inform you of the period of detention that will be imposed after referring to matters relevant to Mr Kavvadas and the question of parity.
33 Mr Kavvadas, your decision to play a role in the armed robbery to which you have now pleaded guilty, was a most unfortunate one. You had chosen to become a party to serious offending and I must impose a punishment upon you which is just in all the circumstances and also to denounce your conduct. As I have already said to Mr Tallis, I must give substantial weight to the principle of general deterrence and this must be reflected in the sentence which I impose on you.
34 I accept that you played a lesser role in respect to Charge 3 and that you only became involved in the armed robbery very shortly before the offence was committed, apparently realising the situation you had placed yourself in shortly before Mr Tallis left the car armed with a knife.
35 You were 18 years old when you committed the offence and you are now 19 years of age. I was told that you spent a number of hours in police custody in relation to these offences which you found a most frightening experience. This served to highlight to you the seriousness of your actions and has had a deterrent effect upon you.
36 You have no prior convictions; nor do you have any subsequent matters. You entered a plea of guilty at an early stage, such that the charge against you proceeded as a straight hand-up brief.
37 As in Mr Tallis' case, your early plea of guilty entitles you to a substantial discount in a sentence you would otherwise receive, as you have saved the witnesses, particularly the victim, the time and trauma of giving evidence and you have saved the community the time and expense of contested proceedings. Moreover, having read material tendered on your behalf and having heard your counsel's submissions, I am satisfied that your early plea of guilty again signifies genuine remorse on your part.
38 I accept that you played no role in planning the armed robbery in which you became involved, nor did you gain from this financially. It was a situation where you assisted a friend without thinking through the consequences for your actions but this does not excuse your offending conduct. I accept that you committed the offence as a young man who was lacking in maturity and also lacking in an ability to think through the consequences of your actions. I was told that you have attempted to address such short-comings since the offence.
39 I take into account your background. You are the oldest of two siblings. I was told that your natural father is not aware of the offending, as you believe he would try to put you down about what you have done. Your relationship with your natural father is somewhat stressed. Your mother separated from your father when you were eight years old and for some time you had been lacking a strong role model. However, you have enjoyed the strong support of Mr Markovski, who has also assisted Mr Tallis, and the support of your stepfather Mr Peter Brennan.
40 You completed Year 10 and then completed a VCAL, a pre-apprenticeship, specialising as an electrician. Mr Brennan has assisted you in obtaining an apprenticeship in the field of auto-electrical engineering, which you were about to embark upon at the time of the plea hearing and as I understand it you have now embarked upon the position. For some time your interest has been in this particular field of work.
41 Like Mr Kavvadas you became involved in the Red Skins Basketball Club and Mr Markovski, who has known you for ten years, speaks most highly of you. Again you have contributed significantly to community activities, from coaching junior basketball teams to performing voluntary work for marginalised children and raising money for charity. You have also completed the Red Skins Youth Leadership and Advanced Youth Leadership programs. Unfortunately you did not learn from such programs the ability to lead rather than to follow, which was essentially what you did on the day of the offending. However, you have many positive attributes which are listed in Mr Markovski's report of 1 May 2012 and you have strong support from family and friends, which is evident from the character material tendered on your behalf and the number of supporters who have attended the plea hearing and indeed have attended today.
42 I also understand that you have a fairly solid work history and your stepfather has provided you with real guidance in this regard and with getting your life back on track. To this end you attended an Ongoing Change Program on 2 April 2012 and you have been attending regularly ever since. A report from that organisation dated 9 May 2012 indicates that you appear to be benefiting from the sessions which appear to focus on changing unacceptable attitudes, reactions and behaviours so as to develop a sense of personal responsibility and making positive decisions.
43 I understand that you are in a stable relationship and have been so involved for the last 12 months. Also you have cut ties with Mr Tallis, who you have perceived as a bad influence upon you.
44 I have read the report of Carla Lechner, psychologist, which was tendered on your behalf. Ms Lechner indicates that you may be vulnerable to the influence of those you see as smarter than you and this is something which you must address to ensure that you never re-offend. Ms Lechner also found that you are cognitively and emotionally immature and essentially lacked the maturity and skills to extricate yourself from the situation in which you became involved.
45 Like Mr Tallis you do not have any psychological or psychiatric disorder. Ms Lechner observed that you would benefit from community supervision which focuses on developing your social and problem-solving skills. You do not have issues with anger, depression, anxiety or substance abuse and at the time of interview with Ms Lechner you were moderately depressed. You have been able to express appropriate victim empathy, which is most encouraging. I take these matters into account when sentencing you.
46 In all of the circumstances I find that you have very good prospects of rehabilitation and as a young man such prospects must be maximised as best I can in sentencing you, but allowing for the fact that I must give appropriate weight to all relevant sentencing considerations in your case. The challenge for you will be to avoid situations in the future which will place you at risk of re-offending, and if placed in such situations developing the skills and courage to resist the bad influence of others who might urge you to commit offences.
47 In view of all the matters which are relevant to sentencing you, I consider that a Community Corrections Order is appropriate and I have received a report indicating that you are suitable for receiving the benefit of such an order.
48 Mr Kavvadas, it has been urged upon me at the further hearing of this matter today that I ought not impose a conviction against you, in light of the following matters: your limited role in the offending and the mitigating features in your case, your youth and the negative impact that a conviction would have upon your future employment opportunities. In this regard I was told that the apprenticeship upon which you have just embarked is with an international company, which may require you to travel internationally in the future. I have considered these submissions and have also considered the question of parity in light of these.
49 Mr Tallis, as I have previously indicated, a Youth Justice Centre disposition is appropriate in your case but I do consider, as I have indicated, a Community Corrections Order is appropriate in yours, Mr Kavvadas.
50 I have turned my mind to the question of parity and I am of the view that there are significant differences between the two of you which warrant the different dispositions in each case. I have also considered whether the principle of parity would be offended if I sentenced you, Mr Kavvadas, to a Community Corrections Order without conviction.
51 Youth Justice Centre is warranted in your case, Mr Tallis, as you have committed three armed robberies, you have a prior matter and a subsequent offence committed whilst on bail, and in the case of Charge 3 you played a more serious role. The corollary of this is that you, Mr Kavvadas, committed one armed robbery, you have no prior to subsequent matters and your role was a lesser one. Further, you committed the offence shortly after becoming aware of the role that you were to play and your apparently gained nothing from the offending.
52 In all the circumstances I am of the view, Mr Kavvadas, that it is appropriate in your case to impose a Community Corrections Order without conviction, as you played a limited role in the offending, having agreed to take part in it just before the accused left the car to commit the offence, you have very strong matters in mitigation in your favour and the imposition of a conviction may well seriously damage your future. You are a young man who had a serious lapse of judgment but someone who has done everything right since, and indeed before this, and I do not believe that the tattoo of a conviction for the rest of your life is in anyone's best interests. Whilst findings of guilt and the like may well be the questions that are asked these days by various agencies and authorities, I accept your counsel's submission that in order to maximise your chances of rehabilitation and to flourish in the future, a Community Corrections Order without conviction is the best that can be achieved in the circumstances. I am also of the view that the principle of parity is not offended against because of the differences between you and Mr Tallis, to which I have previously referred.
53 In coming to the view that I have, I have borne in mind the learned Crown prosecutor's submission that the Crown would have sought a conviction in respect of each of you, even if you and Mr Tallis were being sentenced for Charge 3 alone, but even then I consider that there are matters which separate the two of you such that in your case a Community Corrections Order without conviction would be warranted.
54 Mr Tallis and Mr Kavvadas, people who commit armed robbery often go to adult gaol, however in your case, Mr Tallis, I have had you assessed for a Youth Justice Centre disposition and you have been deemed appropriate for this. Such a disposition will maximise your chance of rehabilitation as opposed to a sentence of adult gaol. In your case, Mr Kavvadas, as I have said, a Community Corrections Order meets with the weight which I must give to all relevant sentencing considerations in your case.
55 Mr Kavvadas, I now propose to sentence you after setting out the obligations that I propose in respect of a Community Corrections Order and obtaining your agreement to these. Would you please stand up.
56 In your case I propose that you undergo a Community Corrections Order without conviction for a period of 12 months from today's date and that the following standard conditions would be imposed: (a) that you must not commit, whether inside or outside Victoria, during the period of the order, an offence punishable by imprisonment; (b) that you must comply with any obligation or requirement prescribed by the regulations; (c) that you must report to and receive visits from the Secretary to the Department of Justice or his or her delegate during the period of the order; (d) you must report to Sunshine Community Correctional Services within two clear working days from today. The address and hours of this facility will be provided to you shortly; (e) you must notify a Community Corrections Officer of any change of address or employment within two clear working days after that change has been made; (f), you must not leave Victoria except with the permission, either generally or in relation to a particular case, of the Secretary of the Department of Justice or his or her delegate; and (g), you must obey all lawful instructions and directions given by the Secretary of the Department of Justice or his or her delegate.
57 In your case, Mr Kavvadas, I would intend to impose two further conditions. They are that you be under the supervision of a Community Corrections Officer for the entire 12 month period that this order runs, and finally, that you must perform 200 hours unpaid community work as directed by the regional manager, to be completed within the next 12 months.
58 The purpose of this order is to punish you for your offending, to ensure that you are supervised and provided with some guides to maximise your chances of not offending again and to manifest the weight that I have given to all relevant sentencing considerations in your case.
59 I should tell you that if you breach this order by committing further offences punishable by gaol or fail to comply with any of the other requirements of this order, or of the regulations which relate to it, then you will be brought back before me and you will be sentenced for the armed robbery all over again and you will face the very real prospect of going to gaol.
60 Do you understand what I have just said to you about the effect of this order?
61 ACCUSED KAVVADAS: Yes.
62 HER HONOUR: Do you understand what can happen if you breach it?
63 ACCUSED KAVVADAS: Yes.
64 HER HONOUR: Do you agree to the making of this order in the terms and conditions that I have just set out?
65 ACCUSED KAVVADAS: Yes.
66 HER HONOUR: In that case, in relation to Charge 3 you are sentenced without conviction to a Community Corrections Order, the terms and the conditions of which I have previously set out. If not for your plea of guilty, Mr Kavvadas, I would have sentenced you to a two year Community Corrections order with heftier conditions, including a heftier work condition and I would have imposed a conviction.
67 I make the following ancillary orders in your case, that is the compensation order which was previously handed to me by the Crown, the disposal order and forensic sample order, none of which are opposed by you. After you have signed the order you may step out of the Dock and sit in the body of the court but before I do that I should explain to you that I have ordered that the forensic sample order be taken by a scraping of the mouth with the use of a swab, and notwithstanding that you presently do not oppose that happening, if you fail to co-operate at the time that that procedure is undertaken, the authorised officer can use reasonable force to ensure that the procedure is undertaken by you.
68 I will just have my associate hand you the order and with your counsel's assistance I will have you sign the document please.
69 In relation to the disposal order, it was only made against Mr Tallis, or should have been made against Mr Tallis, so I vacate that part of my sentence in relation to you, Mr Kavvadas.
70 I have signed that order.
71 Would you please stand up Mr Tallis.
72 Mr Tallis, firstly I make the compensation orders which apply to you, which are not opposed by you, and I also make the disposal order and forensic sample order. Again, these are not opposed by you. You will be required to provide a sample of saliva by a scraping of the mouth, and notwithstanding that you presently do you oppose the order, I should tell you that if you do not co-operate in respect of this procedure an authorised officer may use reasonable force to obtain the sample.
73 Having been assessed as suitable for a Youth Justice Centre Order, you are convicted and sentenced to 18 months Youth Justice Centre.
74 I record that you have already served eight days in relation to this sentence. If not for your plea of guilty I would have sentenced you to two years Youth Justice Centre.
75 Thank you, take a seat for a moment. Are there any further matters, counsel?
76 MS COOMBES: No, Your Honour.
77 MR ANNEAR: No, Your Honour.
78 MS COOMBES: Your Honour, that's an aggregate sentence for the three charges regarding Mr Tallis.
79 HER HONOUR: It is. I perhaps should have expressed it that as far as I am concerned it is an aggregate sentence and it is for the three armed robberies as an aggregate sentence.
80 MS COOMBES: As Your Honour pleases.
81 MS BURNNARD: As Your Honour pleases.
82 MR ANNEAR: As Your Honour pleases.
83 HER HONOUR: Yes, thank you, you may remove Mr Tallis.
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