Director of Public Prosecutions v Kalajdic

[2023] VCC 2209

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA

AT MELBOURNE

CRIMINAL DIVISION

 Revised
Not Restricted
Suitable for Publication

Case No. CR-23-00161
Case No. CR 20-00316

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

V

JAMES KALAJDIC

---

JUDGE:	HER HONOUR JUDGE CANNON
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:	28 November 2023
DATE OF SENTENCE:	28 November 2023
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Kalajdic
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2023] VCC 2209

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
---

Subject:CRIMINAL LAW

Catchwords:                SENTENCE – CR-23-00161 – Pleas of guilty – Theft (2) – Burglary – Armed robbery – Prohibited person possess imitation firearm – Summary charge drive whilst unlicensed

SENTENCE – CR-20-00316 – Contravention Community Corrections Order – Plea of guilty

Youthful offender -  Substantial and relevant criminal history – Significant and chronic poly-substance abuse history – Principal role in relation to co-offenders – Victim of armed robbery soft target – Expert opinions – Mild intellectual disability – Moderately severe ADHD – Poor capacity for consequential decision making – Reasoned decisions impacted by drug use – Complex trauma disorder – Chronic emotional distress linked to substance abuse as form of self-medication – NDIS support upon release -  Finding of profound deprivation suffered in formative years 

Cases Cited:R v Verdins (2007) 16 VR 269; Bugmy v The Queen [2013] HCA 37

Sentence:                   CR-20-00316 – Contravention proven - Previous sentence order set aside and re- sentenced to aggregate term of 475 days – Pre-sentence detention of 475 days declared as having already been served

CR-23-00161 – Convicted and sentenced to 30 months’ imprisonment with a non-parole period of 16 months’ imprisonment – Pre-sentence detention of 340 days’ imprisonment declared as already having been served as part of the sentence imposed – s.6AAA Sentencing Act 1991 (Vic) declaration – Ancillary order Charge 1 theft of motor vehicle Licence cancellation of 18 months.

---

APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecution	Ms V. Worrell	Office of Public Prosecution
For the Accused	Ms L. Papadinas	Emma Turnbull Lawyers

HER HONOUR:

1James Kalajdic, you have pleaded guilty to two charges of theft, one charge of burglary, one charge of armed robbery and one charge of prohibited person possessing an imitation firearm.

2You have also pleaded guilty to two related summary offences of driving whilst unlicensed.

3Further, you have pleaded guilty to contravention of a community correction order which was previously imposed by me in relation to other matters.

4The maximum penalty for theft, burglary and prohibited person possessing an imitation firearm is 10 years’ imprisonment, and for armed robbery, 25 years’ imprisonment.

5The maximum penalty for unlicensed driving is six months’ imprisonment or 60 penalty units.

6The maximum penalty for breaching a community correction order is three months’ imprisonment and I have the power, amongst other options, to set aside the previous orders that I made and resentence you in relation to the offending for which you were given that community corrections order.

7The circumstances giving rise to the offending on the indictment before me are as follows:

8On Friday 23 September at about 5.52 pm, a 2016 model Mercedes Benz belonging to Lucy Santoro was stolen from an address in Mill Park. The car was valued at around $80,000. I should say this is in 2022.

9At about 6.49 pm that same day, you attended a service station in Thomastown in possession of the stolen car. You were seen on CCTV filling the car with petrol and wearing a black balaclava as well as other fairly distinctive clothing which is described in the prosecution opening.  The theft of the car gives rise to Charge 1.

10At 4.14 am, you, as well as co-accused Jordan Stephens and an unidentified third offender attended a jewellery store in Warrandyte in the stolen car. The car no longer had the front or rear registration plates on it.

11You used a window breaking device to smash a fist size hole into the front window of the jewellery store in Warrandyte. You then reached through and took a small amount of display jewellery consisting of custom-made earrings and necklaces before leaving in the stolen Mercedes Benz at about 4.18am. CCTV cameras monitoring the store captured you wearing the same clothing as you were wearing when you went to the petrol station in Thomastown. The value of the stolen jewellery was $1,005 while the damage to the window was $3,476.  This offending gives rise to Charges 2 and 3, burglary and theft.

12On Saturday 24 September at about 4.45 am, shortly after you committed the burglary and theft to which I have just referred, you drove to a 7-Eleven service station in Wantirna South in the stolen car. You parked at a petrol pump.  The third unidentified offender got out of the car and tried to fill up the car with petrol but was refused by the service station attendant after he observed that the car did not have registration plates. The third unidentified offender returned to the car, and you then got out from the driver’s seat. The service station attendant allowed you into the store, thinking that you were entering to prepay for the fuel.  However, you immediately produced a black imitation firearm which was hidden in the front of your pants, and you pointed it towards the victim yelling 'cigarettes, cigarettes!'

13The victim immediately ran to a nearby staff room, and you climbed over the service desk to access the front counter. You grabbed a plastic bin liner bag and took packets of cigarettes from the shelf, then you left driving off in the stolen car. CCTV from the service station captured the offending.

14The total value of the stolen cigarettes was $4,212.20, comprising 126 packets.

15The stolen car was recovered on 25 November 2022 in Torquay and was processed by crime scene officers.

16Police obtained CCTV from your address and that of Mr Stephens on the day before and shortly after your alleged offending. In both sets of CCTV footage, you were wearing the same clothing as seen in the jewellery shop CCTV footage, as well as the 7-Eleven service station footage. You were formally identified using this footage.

17Police found that your mobile phone was in the relevant areas at the time of the offending.

18At the time that you were driving on each of these occasions to which I have referred, you were unlicensed and therefore you have committed the summary offences, being 11 and 12, drive whilst unlicensed.

19Also, you were a prohibited person in relation to possessing firearms and therefore committed Charge 5 on the indictment.

20You were interviewed by police on 31 October 2022 and made admissions to being the male on the CCTV that was obtained from your apartment the day before the offending, but you made no admissions in relation to the offending.

21You entered a plea of guilty at the first committal case conference. You were charged with the offending now before me on 31 October last year whilst you were in custody for an unrelated matter. Ultimately, you were sentenced to three months’ imprisonment for the other offending and that sentence lapsed on 23 December last year.

22Mr Kalajdic, your offending for which I now sentence you is serious and deserving of a punishment which is just in all the relevant circumstances. Your offending must be firmly and appropriately denounced.

23It seems to me that you took a principal role in the offending for which I now sentence you, which involved behaving like a lawless hoodlum. The most serious offence is the armed robbery, where you threatened the victim with an imitation firearm, which, no doubt, he took to be real. He was a soft target trying to make an honest living and he was vulnerable as he was on his own in the dead of night.  Your behaviour is shameful, and I am very disappointed that you have conducted yourself in this way.  I understand that you had relapsed into drug use at the time of the offending which gives me cause for concern. Your drug taking is no excuse, it is not mitigating nor is it aggravating but it did make your conduct all the more dangerous.

24In sentencing you I must have regard to the maximum penalties as these reflect the seriousness of the offences you have committed.

25I have also factored in the substantial value of the car which you stole and significant value of the jewellery and cigarettes. Also, the damage caused to the window of the shop was substantial.

26Further, your wearing of a balaclava and, as I understand it, gloves as well as the removal of the number plates of the stolen car indicate a degree of pre-planning, although overall your offending was rather unsophisticated, and it was fairly inevitable that you would be caught.

27Further, you were a prohibited person from being in possession of the imitation firearm and I am sure you knew that you were not to possess such a weapon. Also, you were subject to two community corrections orders at the time you committed the offences for which I now sentence you and I note that I had dealt with you for your third contravention of the community corrections order which I had imposed only several weeks before the current offences, by varying the order to enable you to continue on it.

28Whilst there is no victim impact statement, it is evident that the victim of the armed robbery was frightened. I understand that in his statement to police he said that he felt so scared and was afraid to leave the emergency room at his workplace, that he was afraid that you would be waiting somewhere to shoot him.

29In sentencing you, I take into account your criminal history which is substantial.  As noted by the learned prosecutor in her plea submissions, you committed a number of offences in 2017 and 2018 which were dealt with in the Children’s Court. These offences included driving offences, theft of motor vehicle, criminal damage, reckless conduct endangering serious injury, theft and attempted armed robbery.  You also have priors for breaching youth supervision orders.

30In 2020 I sentenced you to a combination sentence for an attempted aggravated carjacking and theft. You were sentenced to 475 days' imprisonment, and I declared that 463 days had already been served by way of pre-sentence detention.  I placed you on a community corrections order upon release from prison for a period of two years from the date of your release and incorporated a justice plan into the community corrections order. You were released from custody on 11 November 2020 and commenced on the community correction order, however, you failed to comply with the order on a number of occasions mainly comprising failing to attend for supervision.

31On 26 March 2021 I found the contravention proven and varied the order so that I included judicial monitoring condition. Unfortunately, you continued non-compliance to some extent and on 26 May 2021 I dealt with you in relation to a second contravention by way of non-compliance.  I listed the matter for further judicial monitoring on 29 June and the contravention hearing was adjourned to 29 June 2021 as you attended late. On 29 June you failed to attend, however, I did not issue a warrant for your arrest as this was not pressed by the prosecution on that occasion.

32On 13 August 2021 I dealt with you in relation to the second contravention, deferring sentence to 3 December 2021. On 3 December 2021 I found the contravention proven and varied the order with the resumption of judicial monitoring which was to occur on 3 February 2022. You attended for judicial monitoring on 3 February 2022, notwithstanding you had some compliance issues before this, and you failed to comply on a number of occasions after this judicial monitoring had occurred.

33On 28 March 2022 you were charged with theft.  However, this was not a breach of the community corrections order. You attended for judicial monitoring on 1 April and 27 May 2022.  You had not complied with the community corrections order on two occasions before this being 9 and 11 April. After I monitored you on 27 May, you failed to comply with the community correction order on a number of occasions between 31 May and 12 August 2022. You were then charged with an offence of possessing cannabis which was a non-breaching matter.

34You attended for monitoring on 19 August, and I dealt with you in relation to a third contravention by way of non-compliance on 31 August 2022. I varied the community correction order, extending it for 11 months to enable you to complete outstanding conditions.

35Unfortunately, you failed to comply with the community correction order as varied by failing to report within two clear working days as required and you then failed to attend for supervision on three occasions in September. On 23 September 2022 you were charged with further offending being theft of a motor vehicle and driving whilst unlicensed.  On 24 September you were charged with the offences for which I now sentence you.

36On 29 September you were charged with further non-breaching matters which were possessing methamphetamine, possessing cannabis, driving in a manner dangerous, carrying controlled weapon without excuse, unlicensed driving, fail oral fluid test within three hours, dealing with property suspected to be proceeds of crime, and fraudulently using registration label. These were non-breaching offences for the purposes of the community correction order that resulted in you being remanded in custody.

37On 8 December 2022 you were sentenced in relation to the matters to which I have just referred receiving a sentence of three months’ imprisonment plus a $500 fine, with 74 days declared by way of pre-sentence detention.

38There are other matters in the chronology, however, for my purposes this sets out a number of events which are relevant in sentencing you. I note that the community corrections order which I varied on the third contravention was to expire on 11 October this year.

39Mr Kalajdic, the offending before me in view of your criminal history and lack of progress overall on the community corrections order gives me grave cause for concern about your prospects of rehabilitation. Having said this, I have also factored in that at times during the community corrections order that I imposed, your compliance was good, and you looked to be making progress.  This is why I am very disappointed that you have re-offended in the most serious way that you have and for which I now sentence you.

40In your favour I have taken into account that you pleaded guilty to the offences on the indictment at an early stage which entitles you to a significant discount in the sentence you would otherwise receive as you have saved the witnesses the time and trouble of giving evidence and you have saved the community the time and expense of contested proceedings.  Also, you are to be given a palpable discount for helping to contribute to the reduction in the backlog of trials in this court caused by the pandemic. Although this is not a factor that everyone can rely on anymore, you entered pleas of guilty at a time when this was an important matter in mitigation, and you are to be given that palpable allowance that the Court of Appeal has said should be given.

I have factored in that you have some insight into your offending when determining your prospects of rehabilitation and the weight to attach to specific deterrence.

41I take into account your background which involves profound deprivation and is relevant to your moral culpability and other sentencing considerations.  Also, you suffer from relevant impairments of mental function which have relevance to various sentencing considerations.

42I take into account your personal circumstances as follows:

43You are 22 years old now and you were 21 at the time of the offending.

44You were born in Melbourne, and you were initially raised by your biological parents. However, they divorced when you were four years old.  You now have no contact with your mother, and you have limited contact with your father.  Your childhood was highly unstable and chaotic with you suffering developmental traumas well into your adolescent life. You were exposed to significant drug use by your mother who injected heroin and you also endured family violence from birth. After your parents’ separation, your two older sisters with whom you are still close, were cared for your maternal grandmother, however, you were immediately placed into foster care.  After this, you lived for brief periods with extended family and multiple foster families. You were constantly displaced, often relocating and you attended numerous different primary schools. You stopped going to school part way through Year 9 when you were 14. You received some formal education when you were detained in youth training centres.

45You began offending in late childhood and you were first detained in a youth training centre when you were 16. You have served a substantial number of custodial sentences since this time.

46When you were released from custody in November 2020 you obtained employment for the first time, which is to your credit. You were in a relatively stable situation when released from custody on that occasion and remained in the community until late 2022, which was a substantial period for you.

47I understand that initially, after your release from gaol, you managed to abstain from drugs in the context of you working and living in private rental accommodation with your then girlfriend. However, the relationship ended in about June or July.  You described the relationship as toxic and abusive, although I must say I was unclear as to who you were describing, that is, you or your girlfriend or both. However, the relationship proved to be a negative one and I was told that this led to you returning to substance abuse and there was a deterioration in your overall functioning.

48You have a significant history of substance use. You started smoking cannabis when you were 15, followed by using synthetic cannabis.

49You commenced drinking alcohol when you were 17, largely binge drinking.  You began smoking ice when you were 16, starting at half a gram per day then escalating in your late teenage years to one to two grams per day.  By your early 20s and during the offending period, you had a significant chronic substance abuse problem, regularly smoking cannabis and ice daily with varying amounts of GHB, MDMA and Xanax, a prescription medication.

50I was told that you have never undertaken medically supervised detoxification or residential rehabilitation.  I must say that in view of the community corrections orders you have received; you have had the opportunities, but you have failed to take advantage of these which is a great shame.

Bugmy and Verdins

51I find that you have suffered profound deprivation during your formative years as a child and I give full weight to that background. I allow for Bugmy considerations in a general way. I make some reduction in your moral culpability due to your deprived upbringing and I reduce the weight to some extent that would otherwise apply to just punishment, as well as specific and general deterrence.

52I am also satisfied that you have relevant impairments of mental function which contributed to your offending although this is complicated by the fact that you were significantly affected by substances when you were engaged in the offending.  Having said this, taking substances was part of your background. However, I take into account the following matters as set out in the materials and summarised by your counsel:

53In 2016 you were diagnosed by Dr Alasdair Vance from The Royal Children’s Hospital with moderate severity ADHD, combined type mild severity anxiety with specific phobia, moderate severity oppositional defiance disorder and conduct disorder. These were noted in the DHHS disability overview report prepared for County Court proceedings and dated 26 October 2020.

54In 2017 you were diagnosed with a mild intellectual disability by psychologist Ms Amy Cookson and a statement of intellectual disability was issued.  You have received NDIS support since this time.

55You have undergone numerous cognitive assessments over the years culminating in the current neuropsychological assessment report of Ms Amy Dluzniak dated 29 August 2023.

56Dr Dluzniak did not conclude that you definitively met the DMS5 criteria for an intellectual disability but said that you have borderline intellectual function which was broadly in keeping with previous cognitive assessments and within the mild intellectual disability range.

57She said:

'He certainly has clear impairments in a number of cognitive areas that are likely to impact his day-to-day function.  Despite not clearly presenting with an intellectual disability, Mr Kalajdic’s overall intellectual function was measured on the current assessment to be worse than 97 per cent of other individuals his age in the wider community.  His results suggest that he has a markedly concrete rather than conceptual thinking style, meaning that he is likely to have significant difficulty "seeing the big picture", verbally problem solving, making reasoned decisions, responding flexibly to new situations, and resolving conflict.  He may then be inclined to resort to ineffective, concrete, and maladaptive problem solving or coping strategies at these times, such as aggression, avoidance, or withdrawal' - paragraph 50.

58In relation to the connection between your offending and the impairment of mental function, Dr Dluzniak said:

'Mr Kalajdic’s cognitive impairments and psychiatric conditions do not preclude him from understanding wrongfulness of his actions' (Paragraph 58).

59However, went on to say:

'In my opinion, Mr Kalajdic has poor capacity for consequential decision making as a result of underlying cognitive limitations and a complex PTSD that was exacerbated by his substance use at the time of the offending.  PTSD typically compromises one’s ability to effectively regulate stress and emotions more broadly, which in turn can compromise the ability to engage in calm and reasoned decision making when emotionally heightened and during times of stress.  At the time of the offending, Mr Kalajdic said he was smoking one to two grams of methamphetamine daily, had taken four to five non-prescribed Xanax and had not slept in two weeks. 

When under the influence of substances (particularly central nervous system stimulants such as methamphetamine), Mr Kalajdic’s ability to think clearly and make calm, reasoned decisions would likely to be even more impaired.  The combined effect of his complex PTSD, personality structure, and substance use around the time of the offending also likely contributed to him having difficulty with impulse control' (Paragraph 59).

60Dr Dluzniak said that you had a degree of insight and regret in relation to your substance use and offending behaviour and I was taken to the relevant passage in her report which indicates this. She was of the view that you did not present with any neuropsychological syndrome which would impede your prospects of rehabilitation, although your counsel acknowledged that the structure and treatment required upon your release would have to be significant to overcome you committing further offences.

61In sentencing you I have also factored in the report of Ian Mackinnon dated 27 July 2020 who found at that time that you had been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder with multiple developmental antecedents (complex trauma disorder) (Page 6). He found that the basis of this stemmed from experiencing a highly traumatic and abusive childhood and then with ongoing displacement, early offending and institutional trauma.

62Mr Mackinnon said:

'The primary antecedents to Mr Kalajdic’s PTSD appear to have been in multiple developmental trauma he suffered during his childhood and adolescence arising from his separation from his family and the multiple "care" placements he subsequently underwent.  The constant severing of relationships (with people, places and schools) that characterised Mr Kalajdic’s early life, several assaults he suffered, periods spent institutionalised and so on, only served to fuel his (complex) PTSD further.  In 2018, Mr Kalajdic was (allegedly) kidnapped, bashed and tortured for an extended period and this more recent experience probably amplified his PTSD in the period that followed - (Page 7).'

63I factor in Mr Mackinnon’s view that your chronic emotional distress was linked with your substance abuse issues as you used substances as a form of self-medication. Mr Mackinnon made findings that your impairment of mental function had probably contributed to your offending in relation to offending in 2019 and 2016. 

64On the basis of all the material before me, I accept that Verdins Principles 1 through to four apply.

65Your borderline intellectual function and ongoing suffering of PTSD and complex trauma disorder contributed to your offending in the way set out by Dr Dluzniak in that you had compromised ability to think clearly and make calm reasoned decisions, however, this was exacerbated by your substance abuse.  I make a further reduction in relation to your moral culpability for the offending due to your impairment of mental function which was operating in a relevant way at the time, however, the reduction will not be as great as it would otherwise be, due to the fact that you were abusing ice at the time, which exacerbated your impairment of mental function.

66I further reduce to some extent the weight that attaches to general deterrence, as I do not regard you as being a suitable vehicle for the full weight of general deterrence to apply; however, overall, allowing for Bugmy and Verdins, I still place fairly strong weight on this consideration in all the relevant circumstances, in a bid to deter others from offending as you have. Overall, due to Bugmy and Verdins, I have reduced the weight that would otherwise apply to just punishment to a less than moderate degree in view of my assessment of your level of moral culpability. You are still capable of being deterred from offending, but I make a less than moderate reduction in the weight which would otherwise apply to specific deterrence. If not for Verdins and Bugmy considerations the weight which I would have applied to specific deterrence would be fairly strong in view of your criminal history and the nature of the offending before me.

67I understand that upon your release from gaol you will have NDIS support and I have received documentation indicating that there would be accommodation waiting for you with such supports in place. However, you have said that you would like to live with your father in Port Albert, and it is anticipated that those supports would still be available. I have now received a letter which evidences that offer of accommodation from your father and preparedness by him and his partner to support you.

68I have also taken into account the letters from Dr Chris Kozar who has developed a good rapport with you as he first met you some time ago whilst you were in YJC and he has had a number of treatment sessions with you whilst you have been on remand.  In his report dated 24 August 2023, he said that you had been able to reflect upon your behaviour and had made some progress and developed some insight into your offending, although more work needed to be done. Dr Kozar said that he was willing to continue to work with you and ideally this would occur in the context of a collaborative and supportive team when you are released into the community.

69In sentencing you I have also taken into account the occupational therapy report and what is planned for you in that regard.  I note that you are said to have a primary diagnosis of bipolar affective disorder marked by extreme changes in mood from low to high. This is at variance with other diagnoses, but it is not the first time that I have heard this.  I take it into account in a general way.

70In all of the relevant circumstances I assess your prospects of rehabilitation as guarded.  I place fairly strong weight on protection of the community.

71You are still a young person, and I should do what I can to maximise your chances of rehabilitation. However, in your case, I am also concerned about the weight needed to attach to other relevant sentencing considerations, albeit that the weight I have placed on some of these have been reduced due to Bugmy and Verdins considerations.

72I accept that your impairment of mental function, in combination with other matters put in mitigation, especially your youthfulness, mean that although a head sentence and non-parole period is warranted, I ought do what I can to maximise the gap between the head sentence and non-parole period, and impose a non-parole period that is somewhat moderated although bearing in mind the weight attaching to protection of the community.

73I have also factored in that time in gaol has been and will be harder from time to time due to various Covid restrictions that have been in place, and which might well be in place in the future.

Contravention of Community Correction Order

74You have breached the community correction order that I imposed in a spectacular fashion overall as not only did you not comply with the order, but you did also commit further offences during its currency. Having said this, you did make some progress on the order at various stages which impressed me.  The recommendations of community Corrections are that the order be cancelled, and you be re-sentenced in relation to the original offending.  I agree with this course in view of your overall failure to complete the order and the fact that you have committed further offences. Having said this, I have factored in that you have showed partial compliance of the community corrections order with your justice plan which would have been a challenge for you in light of your mental health issues as well as your experience of homeless and substance abuse issues against your deprived background issues.

75In your case totality is a real consideration, as is proportionality.

76Taking all relevant matters into account I have arrived at a sentence which in my view appropriately addresses all relevant matters and gives appropriate weight to all relevant sentencing considerations in your case.  In doing so I have had regard to current sentencing practice bearing in mind that this is but one consideration and not a controlling one.

77You are convicted of the offences on the indictment, and you are convicted of the breaching offence in respect of the community corrections order.

78In relation to the breach of the community corrections order offence you are sentenced to one month imprisonment.

79I set aside the sentence that I previously imposed, that is the community corrections order and the gaol term that I previously imposed and I re-sentence you for the original offences which were the subject of my sentence on 29 October 2020, those being three charges of theft and one charge of attempted aggravated carjacking.

80In relation to the original offending, you are again convicted, and I impose an aggregate term of imprisonment of 475 days and I declare that you have already served 475 days' imprisonment in relation to that offending.

81In relation to the charges on the Indictment you are sentenced as follows:

82Charge 1, 10 months' imprisonment.

83Charge 2, 10 months' imprisonment.

84Charge 3, five months' imprisonment.

85Charge 4, 24 months' imprisonment, which will be the base sentence.

86Charge 5, six months' imprisonment.

87In relation to the two related summary offences, summary Charges 11 and 12, you are sentenced to an aggregate term of two months' imprisonment.

88I direct that three months from the sentence on Charge 1 and three months from the sentence on Charge 2 be served cumulatively with each other and with the base sentence but that otherwise all sentences are to be served concurrently, producing a total effective sentence of 30 months, or two and a half years.

89I direct that you serve 16 months' imprisonment before becoming eligible for parole.

90In relation to Charge 1 on the indictment, theft of a motor vehicle, I cancel all driver's licences and you are disqualified from driving for a period of 18 months.

91I declare you have already served 340 days by way of pre-sentence detention in relation to the offences for which I have just sentenced you on the indictment.

92If not for your pleas of guilty I would have sentenced you to a total effective sentence of five years' imprisonment with a non-parole period of three years.

93Is there anything arising counsel?

94MS WORRELL:  No, Your Honour, not from my perspective.

95MS PAPADINAS:  I don't believe so, Your Honour.

96HER HONOUR:  Now Ms Papadinas – I'll just see what time we've got here – we've got the link for a little longer, I understand.  Did you want to have a word with Mr Kalajdic before we finish up?

97MS PAPADINAS:  I might do so once Your Honour leaves the bench, just to explain - - - 

98HER HONOUR:  That's what I was proposing - - - 

99MS PAPADINAS:  Yes, Your Honour. 

100HER HONOUR:  But you want to keep the link going?

101MS PAPADINAS:  If that's possible.

102HER HONOUR:  I will now adjourn and just let my tipstaff know when you need to hang up, alright?

103MS PAPADINAS:  As Your Honour pleases.

104MS WORRELL:  As the court pleases.

105HER HONOUR:  Thank you.  Yes, we will now adjourn.

- - -