Director of Public Prosecutions v Hughes
[2016] VCC 1762
•8 November 2016
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA AT GEELONG CRIMINAL DIVISION | Revised (Not) Restricted Suitable for Publication |
Case No. CR-16-01332
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| MICHELLE HUGHES |
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JUDGE: | HER HONOUR JUDGE HAMPEL | |
WHERE HELD: | Geelong | |
DATE OF HEARING: | ||
DATE OF SENTENCE: | 8 November 2016 | |
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Hughes | |
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2016] VCC 1762 | |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the DPP | Ms V. Jones | |
| For the Accused | Mr S. Moglia |
HER HONOUR:
1
This is one of the saddest cases of violence within a family that I have had had to deal with. On 28 November last year, in a drug induced psychosis, for over an hour, you Michelle Hughes, subjected your 79 year old mother to a terrifying and violent attack in the home where you had lived with her for the past
15 years.
2 You followed her into her bedroom, pushed her onto her bed and held her down to prevent her escape. You armed yourself with a knife, brandishing it at her. You tried, repeatedly, to stab her in the chest and neck. She sustained multiple defensive lacerations to her arms and hands as she tried to protect herself and fend you off. She pleaded with you to let her go, to spare her life. You told her you didn’t want to kill her, that you loved her, but the voices were telling you you had to do it. You told her if you did not kill her, “they” would burn the house down and she would die a long slow agonising death, that that was what you had been threatened with. At one stage you threw the knife outside the bedroom, but still kept your mother captive in her room. You grabbed a lamp, hit her with it and tried to strangle her with the cord.
3 After about an hour she finally managed to get away from you, and off the bed. She escaped downstairs, and out of the house, bleeding and terrified. You picked up the knife and followed her, and again attacked her as she ran into the driveway. Fortunately, there were neighbours nearby, and one managed to disarm you as others went to her aid.
4 After you were disarmed, you went back inside the house and poured boiling water from the kettle over yourself, adding to the burns you had already inflicted on yourself in the lead up to this terrifying episode.
5 Earlier that morning, your mother, realising the shower had been running for more than 20 minutes, found you standing under the shower, your skin red, and with the hot tap only on. She had turned off the tap, only to discover you, soon after, this time dressed, on your hands and knees, again in the shower with the hot tap only on. It had taken some time for her to be able to stop you blocking the shower door so she could turn the tap off again. She had then tried to ring the Swanston Centre, the psychiatric centre in Geelong under whose care you had been for some years, and where you had been seen only 2 days earlier. You became angry or suspicious when you realised she was on the phone, and it was that which had led to your following your mother into her bedroom and attacking her, in the circumstances I have recounted.
6 You were admitted to hospital on your arrest. You were in a psychotic state. In addition, you were treated for scalding burns to your body, a self-inflicted knife wound to your hand and another wound to your leg which occurred it would appear at some stage in the course of the struggle.
7 You were interviewed three days later. You admitted stabbing your mother and trying to strangle her with a lamp cord. You acknowledged you had used ice in the days leading up to the attack, and said that you had started hearing voices that morning telling you to hurt your mother. You said that you were having a three-way battle, apparently a reference to struggling with the voices telling you to hurt your mother, your desire not to hurt her, and your mother's pleas not to hurt her.
8 It is these events that give rise to the four charges to which you have pleaded guilty. One of false imprisonment, one of intentionally cause injury, one of making threats to kill, and one of reckless conduct endangering life.
9 You are now 53. Until you were in your late 30s you appeared to have lived an unremarkable life in the sense that you had not come to the attention of the criminal law or of the mental health system. The most significant event in your life up until your 30s appears to have been the death of your father when you were in your early 20s. You had been close to him (as you had been to your mother) and you reported that his death had a profound impact on you. Your family was able to send you and your two older brothers to private schools. Your upbringing was loving and stable. You are of at least average intelligence. On leaving school, you qualified, then worked as a dental nurse for eight years. After that, and until your mid 30s held down a series of other jobs, as an insurance broker, in a café, then in corporate sales positions. Although there were some job changes, your employment history was properly described as stable, and continuous. You reported being regarded as reliable, and obtaining good references. It would appear most jobs came to an end because you were retrenched rather than for any other reason.
10 However underneath this apparent surface stability, things were not so good. You report having felt anxious all your life. You reported in your employment having avoided promotion, for fear you would not be able to cope,. From your late teens or early 20s you had used alcohol in an attempt to quell your anxiety, and during your 20s and 30s developed a significant problem with binge drinking. You used marijuana in your 20s until you stopped using that feeling that it was too strong for you and that it was having a bad effect on you. Since your mid 30s you have been unable to work as a result of your anxiety, and since your late 30s you had been on a Disability Support Pension as a result of what Dr Sullivan, the psychiatrist who assessed you for the purposes of the plea, characterised as increasing problems with mental health and substance use.
11 Although you seem to have stopped both the excessive drinking and the cannabis use of your own accord, you turned to other substances which you either found difficult to stop using, or did not want to stop using. In your early 30s you began using heroin, and although you soon enough stopped that, you have been on the methadone maintenance program almost ever since. The other treatments for trying to deal with the heroin addiction apparently had significant counter effects for you. In addition to the heroin use and then the methadone use, you had also used amphetamine intermittently since beginning your heroin use, and in more recent years you had turned to use of ice.
12 It was ice use which caused the psychosis which led to your attack on your mother, and which brings you before this court for sentencing.
13 Medical records from Barwon Health going back as far as 2001 record an ongoing need for treatment. You have variously been diagnosed as suffering from generalised anxiety disorder, bipolar spectrum disorder, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, substance use (heroin, alcohol, amphetamines, benzodiazepines) and borderline personality disorder. You told Dr Sullivan you consider that diagnosis of borderline personality disorder to be the correct one. You have had four inpatient admissions to the Swanston Centre since 2001, one of which was involuntary. You have been case managed by the Swanston centre for many years.
14 Of significance are your admissions to the Swanston Centre since 2010. In his report Dr Sullivan describes them in these terms:
“A medical discharge summary from 2010 noted a three week admission with acute liver and renal failure possibly due to paracetamol overdose with delayed presentation. You required intensive care unit admission and dialysis but apparently made a full recovery.
A psychiatric discharge summary in late 2014 notes a one week admission with persecutory ideation including that your house and phone and Facebook accounts had been hacked by cousins and that they were in league with bikies breaking into your current home. You were reported to be minimising your substance use despite challenge. The diagnosis was of delusional disorder and you were commenced on an antipsychotic medication, Paliperidone.
A further admission in June 2015 for nine days was with suicidal ideation, lowered mood, persecutory delusions and increased heroin and ice use. Once again you were treated with antipsychotic medications. This time Asenapine (Saphris), and Chloroparmazine or Largactil. Your most recent admission was for two weeks in early November 2015 with increased agitation and delusions secondary to illicit drug use including methamphetamine. No auditory hallucinations were noted. You were fearful that you would be harmed and that patients, hospital staff and police may have been working with your tormenters. You were again treated with antipsychotics, different ones this time, Quetiapine or Seroquel and Olanzapine or Zyprexa. You were advised to cease stimulant use.”
15 In Dr Sullivan’s opinion, you have an established diagnosis of emotionally unstable borderline personality disorder, manifested in intermittent suicidality, problems with mood regulation and interpersonal relationships, low self-esteem and lowered mood. You have previously undergone treatment with dialectical behavioural therapy to seek to address this.
16 In addition Dr Sullivan says there is a longstanding history of anxiety symptoms and tremulousness which would satisfy a diagnosis of a generalised anxiety disorder, and of a generally longstanding low mood which would satisfy a diagnosis of persistent depressive disorder. Most significantly for the purposes of sentencing, you have a protracted history of polysubstance abuse and dependence with past alcohol and benzodiazepine abuse, and ongoing amphetamine dependence and opiate dependence. In Dr Sullivan’s opinion you have minimised your level of amphetamine use in discussions with mental health staff and only since being charged with this offending have you acknowledged a usage which had increased significantly prior to the offending. Dr Sullivan noted that mental health staff provided clear advice to you to cease using methamphetamine in order to improve your mental state.
17 Your psychiatric admissions from 2014 to late 2015 involved psychotic symptoms induced by methamphetamine use. Dr Sullivan noted there have been few admissions and no concerns about a psychotic illness in the preceding years. In his view the causal and temporal association with stimulant use, the absence of preceding psychosis, the first onset in your 50s, and the resolution of the psychotic symptoms with abstinence in custody are all consistent with a diagnosis of stimulant induced psychotic disorder.
18 Dr Sullivan concluded that at the time of the offences you were affected by stimulant induced psychotic order, noting 2 days of preceding escalated methamphetamine use, evidence of disorganised and irrational behaviour, command auditory hallucinations and bizarre delusional beliefs including believing that you were in a game show in which you were required to kill your mother. He considered that methamphetamine use was causally associated with the offences, disinhibited you, impaired your ability to appreciate the wrongfulness of your conduct and impaired your ability to make calm and rational choices and to think clearly. Your judgment was impaired. In his view, no other mental disorder is directly causally associated with the offending but he noted that your longstanding persistent depressive disorder, anxiety and personality disorder are likely to be in part causally associated with your longstanding propensity to substance abuse.
19 Whilst those conditions can explain your substance abuse, it is equally clear that you had received repeated clear and strong advice from Barwon Health over the previous 2 years that you should abstain from methamphetamine use in order to improve your mental health, and that your previous psychotic episodes and admissions were related to your methamphetamine use. In fact on the material before me it was only 2 days earlier that you had last presented to the Swanston Centre, clearly suffering then from drug-related psychotic symptoms.
20 The consequence of all of this has been devastating for your mother and the rest of your family as well as for you. Your mother and indeed all of your family on the reports has always been very supportive of you. You had lived with your mother for the last 15 years. She in fact, was telephoning the Swanston Centre after discovering you under the hot shower, concerned about your state and the delusional beliefs that you were then articulating to her. It was her attempts to contact the Swanston Centre that seem to precipitate the attack upon her although it is not at all clear whether you were aware that she was calling the Swanston Centre. Your delusional state was such that the fact that she was on the phone seemed to be sufficient to trigger this psychotic fear in you.
21 Your mother has been so traumatised by what has happened, that she has felt unable to return to her home, the home she had lived in for many years, and she lives in fear that a recurrence of your psychosis would again put her at risk. Your brother, his wife and their children, who have been very close to your mother and supportive of you, are also terrified for the consequences for themselves should you lapse into drug induced psychosis again. Although your mother has moved house and you do not know where she lives, your brother has not. Although you, in the state you are in now, wish them no harm, that of course if not a complete comfort for them. As a result of what has happened, the rift within the family is at this stage, irreparable.
22 The physical consequences for your mother were also serious. She suffered multiple lacerations to both her hands and forearms. They were all defensive wounds that she sustained as she tried to grapple the knife away from you in her bedroom and again as you chased her out into the street. When she was admitted to hospital at the same time as you were straight after the incident, she was reporting reduced sensation in her right hand. There was a risk that there may have been nerve damage and surgery was required to explore the extent of damage and to repair the lacerations. As a result of your attempt to strangle her with the lamp cord her neck was hyperextended. Although x-rays and MRIs did not reveal any fracture or injury, she suffered ongoing pain, headaches, seizures in her neck and some days after her release from hospital collapsed when she was at her hairdresser’s when again her neck was hyperextended. She required further hospitalisation for observation.
23 For many older women living alone as she does, the fear of increasing frailty and loss of independence are in themselves significant fears. Your mother’s fears have been compounded by the circumstances in which she suffered these injuries and the state that you were in.
24 You have been in custody since you were arrested; for the first three days in hospital and then at Dame Phyllis Frost. You are isolated. You have lost the support of your mother and your brother and his family. They have been the primary supports to you for the last 15 years or so in Geelong. The few friends that you have, have not found themselves able to visit you in the stressful circumstances of a visit to a prison. Although you have consistently expressed deep remorse for what you did, you accept that your mother, your brother and your extended family do not want to have any contact with you, and that it is not appropriate in the circumstances for you to seek to make contact with them to apologise personally or to seek to rebuild a relationship. You accept that any reaching out will have to come from them.
25 Intervention orders protecting your mother are currently in place, although you have been in custody. Through your counsel, you indicate that you understand the desire of your family not to have contact with you. You understand that they express a fear of inadvertent contact with you, should you to return to the Geelong area upon your release from custody. Although Geelong has been your home for a long time, and you have little connection with any community apart from that, further evidence of your remorse is that you have taken steps to find a place to live outside of Geelong upon your release. You indicate that out of respect for the fears that have been expressed by your family about continued contact with you, even if it is inadvertent, that you will seek to obtain more permanent and stable accommodation outside Geelong once you are established upon your release.
26 Your mental state and substance abuse over the last 15 years has meant that you have few friends and contacts either in or out of Geelong, and the destruction of the familial relationship means that but for a couple of close friends with whom you have sought to make contact during your time in custody, you will by and large have to start afresh upon your release.
27 You have made contact with a longstanding friend, who knows of your history of mental illnesses and of your history of substance abuse and she is prepared to provide you with accommodation at her home in Brighton for a period of up to 3 months following your release from custody. This will enable you to establish links with the local area mental health authority, and to arrange for transfer of the relevant information about you from Barwon Health and also for transfer of your methadone prescribing to a pharmacy in the Brighton area. It will also enable you to seek and obtain stable housing of your own, to link in with mental health and disability support services, and drug rehabilitation services.
28 In the course of the plea, I had long discussions with your counsel about the importance of safe transition planning to ensure that upon your release you are supported so that you would not be tempted to relapse into drug use and risk therefore another psychotic state. I have been provided this morning with an assessment order made under the s.30 of the Mental Health Act. That was an assessment carried out last night, the effect of which was to make you subject, were you to be released today, to a 24 hour inpatient assessment order in order to allow an appropriate assessment of your state to be made. Initially probably, it would be through Barwon Health given your long history there, but then with a view to the transfer to Brighton to the address that you have identified you are able to live. Further information from Mr Moglia has confirmed that were you not to be released today, and it is not my intention to do so, that a similar assessment will be conducted of you immediately before your release so that if you present on the day of your intended release in the same manner in which you presented last night, that a further assessment order will be made. Either an inpatient assessment order or a community assessment order so as to ensure that there is safe transition planning from your release from custody.
29 I had discussions in the course of the plea about the appropriate sentencing structure and I had come to the view of the result of what I had been told that the appropriate sentencing structure was a term of imprisonment followed by release upon a community corrections order. I had discussions about whether it was appropriate, as part of that sentencing mix, to fix of a non-parole period so as to allow a transition from custody to release in the community. I am satisfied, having seen the assessment order and being told of the process that is contemplated upon the date of your proposed release, and the efforts that you have gone to to find yourself transitional housing upon your release, that it is not appropriate to add a non-parole period to the sentencing mix. And therefore, the sentence that I propose to impose is one of a term of imprisonment followed by release upon a community correction order with strict conditions and with that assurance I now have that an assessment will be conducted under the Mental Health Act by Justice Health. If it appears you needed immediate treatment to prevent serious deterioration in your mental or physical health, or serious harm to yourself or to another person, and that there is no less restricted means reasonably available to allow you to be assessed, other than by the making of an assessment order, that that till be done.
30 In my view, the sentence that I have arrived at properly balances the need for denunciation deterrence and just punishment, but with an understanding of the underlying mental health issues that predisposed you to substance abuse, and made you less able to cope with the vicissitudes of life than many others, and which provides you with the supports to manage your mental health and to address your substance abuse so as to reduce the risk of a further psychotic episode and offending related to that.
31 In coming to that view, I take into account your obvious and genuine remorse, evidenced by your behaviour as well as by your pleas of guilty and early stage at which they were entered, and the admissions that you made to the police. You are entitled to the benefit of having reached the age of 53 with an almost unblemished criminal record. You have a couple of minor court appearances for minor thefts. You have no previous convictions for offences of violence, for drug-related offences, or for offences of antisocial behaviour which suggests that you act without regard to the rights of others.
32 I also considered it appropriate in the circumstances to impose an aggregate sentence in respect of the term of imprisonment applicable for these 4 charges. They were, although separate criminal acts, part of the same episode, and all carry the same maximum term of imprisonment namely, 10 years. It seems to me to be artificial in the circumstances to allocate individual sentences. This was an episode of offending and properly one that in my view should be reflected by the imposition of an aggregate term of imprisonment.
33 Nothing can turn the clock back on those years when your underlying mental health problems were compounded by your substance abuse, and nothing can undo the terrifying events of this day. Cannot undo it for you, cannot undo it for your mother. But I hope this sentence will enable you and your mother to see not only that you have been punished, and rightly so, for what you have done, but also that the sentence imposes a structure around you that will enable you, should you choose to take advantage of the opportunities it offers you to better manage your mental health, to lead a more meaningful life, to avoid substance abuse and the risk of ever again suffering a psychotic episode that puts anyone, least of all those you love best, at risk of harm and leaves open the prospect of a repair of the relationship with your mother and your extended family in the future.
34 On the 4 charges to which you have pleaded guilty, false imprisonment, make threat to kill, intentionally cause injury and reckless conduct endangering life, you are sentenced to be imprisoned for an aggregate term of 18 months.
35 I declare that the period that you have been in custody in respect of these offences, namely 346 days, be reckoned as a period of imprisonment already served under this sentence and which is to be deducted administratively.
36 In addition, on each of Charges 1, 2 ,3 and 4, you are required to serve a community correction order for a period of 30 months. That is two and a half years. The order will commence upon the completion of your term of imprisonment and end 30 months from that date.
37 The terms of that community correction order are these. These are the mandatory terms; that you must not commit another offence for which you could be imprisoned during the time that the order is in force. You must comply with any obligation or requirement prescribed by regulation 17 of the Sentencing Regulations 2011. That means you must not be impaired by alcohol or illicit substances or prescribed substances taken otherwise than in accordance with prescription when you attend at Corrections for any supervision or other visits. That you must report to and receive visits from the Secretary or delegate. You must report to the Community Corrections Centre at Moorabbin Justice Centre, 1140 Nepean Highway, Highett, within 2 clear working days after the commencement of the order, that is after your release. You must let a Community Corrections officer know within 2 clear working days if you change your address, get a job or lose a job. You must not leave Victoria without first getting permission to do so from the Secretary or delegate and you must obey all lawful instructions from and directions of the Secretary or delegate.
38 In addition to the mandatory terms these are the following terms that apply specifically to you and are tailored to your circumstances. You must be under the supervision of a Community Corrections officer for the period of two and a half years of the order. You must undergo assessment and treatment including testing for drug abuse or dependency as directed by the regional manager. You must undergo any mental health assessment and treatment and that may include psychological and neuropsychological psychiatric treatment or treatment in a hospital or residential facility as directed by the regional manager. And you must participate in programs and/or courses that address factors relating to the offending as directed by the regional manager.
39 I have also been asked to make a disposal order in respect to the items that were taken, that was not opposed and I have made that order.
40 Finally I should declare that pursuant to s.6AAA of the Sentencing Act, that but for your pleas of guilty I would have sentenced you to a total effective sentence of 5 years and fixed a period of 3 years as the non-parole period.
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HER HONOUR: Ms Hughes do you understand the effect and conditions of that order?
OFFENDER: Yes I do.
HER HONOUR: And do you consent to it being made?
OFFENDER: I'm a bit confused. How am I supposed to do the hospital assessment if I've got to report in two days after release to the Corrections.
HER HONOUR: That's a very good question. If you are under a hospital assessment - if you are subject to a inpatient assessment order or required under the terms of a community assessment order to attend a mental health facility so you are unable to report, then I would anticipate that that would be a reasonable excuse for not attending within two days, that the mental health authority would be in contact with Community Corrections to let them know that you are under their care and that is why you can't report. And that arrangement will be made for you to report in accordance with this order within two days of your availability to do so if you are subject to an inpatient assessment order.
OFFENDER: Yeah, I only found out about the in-house assessment yesterday. I wasn't consulted. The reason behind it apparently I have had two attempted suicides, it was in June and August. I haven't hurt myself since then and I don't believe that mentally I need this assessment. It's more them trying to protect themselves.
HER HONOUR: Well this order that I was presented with is a 24 hour order and would only take effect were you to be released from custody. You are not being released from custody today, this order does not carry through. So on the day before or in the time leading up to your release from the 18 months' imprisonment, less the time you have already served, I have no doubt that Justice Health will be monitoring your mental state, and if they consider it appropriate to do an assessment, they would have to do it less than 24 hours before your anticipated release. So it will depend on your progress between now and the date of your release as to what their assessment is. But if an order is made under the Mental Health Act, then that authorises those under the Mental Health Act if it's an inpatient assessment, to hold you as an inpatient for the purpose of the assessment. That falls under the Mental Health Act, not under the criminal law.
OFFENDER: I needed - there is two sides to Marmak. There is an A side and B side. B side is permanent lockdown, you have no access to anything else. That's where I went after my last attempt at suicide. I had to call the Ombudsman to get removed from there after four months because they wouldn't believe me. I am now on the A side, I have contact access again but um, the reason why I'm mentioning this is that I - they have no reason to suspect that I would do anything. I've proved to them, I am running out of proof to these people that nothing is going to happen to me and I'm - I really think it's overkill. And outpatient - I'm having - it was - my original belief was that I would have outsourced assessment and that's why that so I would link up with facilities. Nothing has been mentioned to me about internal admittance.
HER HONOUR: I'm sorry that it happened without any notice to you
Ms Hughes. That clearly is a difficult thing for anybody and particularly someone coming up for sentencing as you were. I've got limited power to deal with that but what I will do is direct that a transcript of what you've said to me this morning be produced and added to the sentencing reasons that will be provided to the Corrections authorities and that will be therefore available for their consideration in the time leading up to release. You know now what your release date will be so you will be in a better position to be able to have discussions with them in the lead up to your release as to your perception of your mental state and your perception of the risk or lack of risk that you pose to yourself and others.
OFFENDER: The reason why I'm in Marmak still is that there's no beds outside that unit. And that's why I haven't moved out. It's not because I need to be monitored or anything other than that, it's just that there's simply no bed for me out on another unit.
HER HONOUR: I'm glad that Mr Moglia pointed out to me that he didn't know what the state of beds was at Dame Phyllis and the reasons why you were in Marmak, so I've not used that as evidence in terms of my sentencing decision about your mental state, I've relied on Dr Sullivan's report. So are you, now that you've told me those things are you - - -
OFFENDER: Dr Sullivan's report states that I poured boiling water over myself from the kettle. That's not true. I did not boil water and tip it over myself. I certainly burnt myself in the shower but I did not come out and harm myself further.
HER HONOUR: I didn't say and nothing in Dr Sullivan's report said that you had boiled the kettle. I certainly - he used the term, "Poured water from a kettle", I used the term, "boiling", if that was a mistake of mine then it was a mistake of mine.
OFFENDER: No I'm saying the kettle episode did not happen.
HER HONOUR: Right.
OFFENDER: I don't know where it came from.
HER HONOUR: All right. Having told me those things are you still prepared to acknowledge that you understand the effect and conditions of the community correction order - - -
OFFENDER: Yes - - -
HER HONOUR: - - - and consent to it being made.
OFFENDER: - - - I do.
HER HONOUR: Can I ask Mr Moglia to bring it down to you, I need you to sign that and then I need to countersign it.
OFFENDER : With regard to my family Your Honour, they've stored all my belongings um, and when I am finally released I will at some stage need some - my clothes and my furniture back.
HER HONOUR: It may be prudent in the circumstances if you speak to
Mr Moglia about that and your lawyers can write to your family and make arrangements in a way that will cause the least distress to you and to them.
OFFENDER: Thank you.
HER HONOUR: All right, the community correction order has been signed by you Ms Hughes and countersigned by me. A copy of that will be made and provided to Mr Moglia and to the Corrections authorities. I have also been asked to make a disposal order in respect to the items that were taken, that was not opposed and I have made that order. Finally I should declare that pursuant to s.6AAA of the Sentencing Act, that but for your pleas of guilty I would have sentenced you to a total effective sentence of 5 years and fixed a period of 3 years as the non-parole period.
MR MOGLIA: As Your Honour pleases.
HER HONOUR: Are they all the orders that are required to be made
Ms Jones and Mr Moglia?
MS JONES: Yes Your Honour.
MR MOGLIA: I think so.
HER HONOUR: All is correct.
OFFENDER: Sorry Your Honour, I'm a bit confused. I thought I had an 18 month - - -
HER HONOUR: You do indeed. I'm required to make a declaration as to the sentence I would have imposed if you hadn't pleaded guilty.
OFFENDER: Okay sorry.
HER HONOUR: So that's that declaration., Mr Moglia will explain that to you.
OFFENDER: Thank you.
HER HONOUR: All right thank you, could you remove Ms Hughes please.
Mr Moglia would you mind waiting for a copy of the CCO. Thank you, I'll stand down. Thank you Ms Jones, thank you Mr Moglia.
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