Director of Public Prosecutions v Hedditch (a pseudonym)
[2018] VCC 1631
•5 October 2018
IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised
Not Restricted Suitable for Publication
AT MELBOURNE CRIMINAL JURISDICTION
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS
v
BROCK HEDDITCH (a pseudonym)
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JUDGE: HIS HONOUR JUDGE CARMODY
WHERE HELD: Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING: 27 September 2018
DATE OF SENTENCE: 5 October 2018
CASE MAY BE CITED AS: DPP v Hedditch (a pseudonym)
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: [2018] VCC 1631
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject: CRIMINAL LAW
Catchwords: Possess Child Abuse Material, Access/Transmit Child Pornography.
Legislation Cited: Crimes Act 1914 (Cth).
Cases Cited: DPP (Cth) and DPP v Garside [2016] VSCA 74, DPP v Smith [2010] VSCA 215, R v Gent [2005] NSWCCA 370;
162 A Crim R 29.
Sentence: Total effective sentence is two years and six months imprisonment with a non-parole period in relation to both the State and Federal sentences collectively of 18 months imprisonment.
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APPEARANCES: Counsel Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions
Ms O. Go Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions
For the Accused Ms M. Brown GTC Lawyers
VICTORIAN GOVERNMENT REPORTING SERVICE
7/436 Lonsdale Street, Melbourne Vic 3000 - Telephone 9603 9134 206156
HIS HONOUR:
1Brock Hedditch1, on 27 September 2018 you pleaded guilty to three charges on indictment number CR-18-01163:
Charge 1, accessing child pornography by using a carriage service. This charge has a maximum penalty of 15 years' imprisonment.
Charge 2, transmit child pornography on 25 September 2017 using a carriage service. This charge has a maximum penalty of 15 years' imprisonment.
Charge 3, knowingly possess child abuse material. This is a State offence. This charge has a maximum penalty of 10 years' imprisonment.
Circumstances of Your Offending
2The prosecutor, Ms Go, tendered a summary of prosecution opening for plea.
This is Exhibit “B” and will be annexed to the reasons for this sentence. It is an extensive summary of some 16 pages. I will refer to parts of that summary in these reasons for sentence but have taken into account all the matters set out in Exhibit “B” in assessing the objective seriousness of your offending in this case.
3The Australian Federal Police (“AFP”) detected communications sent by Skype communications to another offender in the United Kingdom. The AFP executed a search warrant at your family home on 21 December 2017. At the time of the search the police seized an Apple iPhone 5C, a white and silver HP Pavilion all-in-one computer and a red and black SanDisk USB stick.
4During the search and later in a formal record of interview you made the following admissions about accessing and sharing child pornography material:
· You started to look at child exploitation material about a year ago;
· that it was a fantasy, a visual thing for you about child exploitation
1 a pseudonym name
material, nothing else;
· that you downloaded child exploitation material on your mobile phone using an application called "Chatstep";
· that you used Chatstep because it was an encrypted website;
· that you would save the child exploitation material on your mobile phone on an application called "Mega";
· that you installed Chatstep and Mega on your mobile phone for the purpose of downloading and saving child exploitation material.
· that you had uploaded child exploitation material on Chatstep;
· that the last time you uploaded onto Chatstep was about a month ago;
· that you primarily used your mobile phone to look at the child exploitation material;
· that there were about 90 files of child exploitation material on your mobile phone;
· That you admitted that if an image appealed to you that you would store it on your phone;
· that you used the HP Pavilion all-in-one computer to download and view the child exploitation material;
· there were about 140 files of child exploitation material on a USB stick;
· once the files had been downloaded onto your USB stick you plugged it into your PC at home and viewed the contents; and
· that you knew it was illegal to download and possess child exploitation material.
5A formal examination and assessment of the child pornography material on each of your devices was undertaken by the authorities.
6A combined total of 2,462 unique child pornography files were found on your iPhone and USB stick. The accessing period was between 12 January 2014 and 7 December 2017, almost a period of four years.
7The child pornography material was classified according to the Anvil system.
The Anvil system categories are as follows: Category 1, no sexual activity;
Category 2, solo/sex acts between children;
Category 3, is non-penetrative adult and child depictions; Category 4, is penetrative child to child or adult and child material; Category 5, is sadism, bestiality and child abuse; and
Category 6, is animated or virtual pornography.
8The classification of all 2,462 files was undertaken by investigators and a summary of it is as follows:
In regards to images, that is just still images; In Category 1 you had 521. In Category 2 you had four. In Category 3 you had 786. In Category 4 you had 718. In Category 5 you had 47 and in Category 6 you had two, a total of 2,078 of still images.
9In videos; In Category 1 you had three, Category 2 you had 45, Category 3 you had 45, in Category 4 you had 286. In Category 5 you had five videos and in Category 6 you had none, a total of 384 videos. As I say, they made up a total of 2,462 unique files. 1,835 of the unique files fit into the categories of three
and four on the Anvil classification.
10In the prosecution opening, the summary of samples of the child pornography found on your devices was provided. The following is a summary:
· In Category 1, there is an image of a close up of a young girl aged between eight and 12 years' vaginal area. Another image is of a naked boy aged between eight and 12 years with penis and anus area shown.
· In Category 2, an image of a naked boy aged between 10 and 14 years old being masturbated by a naked young girl between the ages of 10 and 14 years old and an image of a naked young boy between 10 and 14 years old who is holding his penis and has just ejaculated over his stomach and face.
· In Category 3, an image of a young girl under the age of 10 masturbating a male and an image of a young boy aged between eight and 12 years old licking a male penis.
· In Category 4, an image of a young boy aged between six and eight years performing fellatio on an adult male and an image of an adult male having anal intercourse with a young boy aged between 10 and 14 years old.
· In Category 5, an image showing a naked young boy aged between 10 and 14 years tied up by his ankles and wrists to a door and tape covering his mouth and also an image of a naked boy between the ages of two and five years old with his feet tied up and the process of his hands being tied on the ground.
· In Category 6, is an image of a naked young boy between 10 and 14 years sitting on a naked male's lap.
11Despite the adequate description of the nature of the pornographic material you
possessed, the learned prosecutor insisted that it was necessary for me to view a sample of the child pornography material. This was done in open court with the assistance of the informant and his display of the sample material on his computer.
12The summary referred to above was both an adequate and accurate description of the child pornography material. The material shown depicted dreadfully depraved acts of perversion and debauchery by an adult on a child.
13The summary above forms a basis for Charges 1 and 3 on the indictment.
14Charge 2 on the indictment involves you offending by sending textual child pornography on 25 September 2017. In this charge the additional s.16BA form of the Commonwealth Crimes Act 1914 which is Exhibit “A” on the plea.
15This offending by you used “Kik messenger” which is a free instant messenger application for mobile phones. This system can be used without verification of the identity of the user. A sample of your textual child pornography is your communication with a person identified as "Boredgy". You identified as "Crcouplemelb".
16In your communication with Boredgy, which is effectively annexed in “Annexure B”, you described the child pornography you had seen and your own interests. In particular you described having seen; "Dad and son”, “son jerking dad” and “young hands on mature cock".
17This was followed by Boredgy telling you that he “needs to find some of that”.
In response you have suggested the following:
i. try “Chatstep”;
ii. “Hit or Miss”;
iii. “Encryption chatroom”; and
iv. “Safe”.
18This led to Boredgy asking you:
"And you obviously have seen younger girls too, right?"
In reply you have said as follows:
"Yes, all types, video, pics and have to be lucky".
You have then described that you had seen:
"Mature guy fucking seven year old Asian girl".
19This led to Boredgy disclosing his interest in his “cuz” which is alleged to bear reference to his cousin. The communications then led to suggestions by you about what Boredgy should do with his "cuz", namely:
i. “Take your time”;
ii. “Go slow”;
iii. “Just rub your cock on her slit”;
iv. “Just tickle her pussy first”.
20These suggestions constitute the textual child pornography.
S.16BA offence - Making available child pornography
21The scheduled offence is based on chat communications and your admissions in your record of interview with the sharing of child pornography. There is no forensic IT evidence available to establish the specific volume of your child pornography that you have shared.
22As has been noted above, you admitted to police during the execution of the warrant that you had shared child pornography. In those comments you advised police that you used Chatstep on your iPhone to drag and drop to share
it. Chatstep is a secure and private web based disposable chatroom located at an address on the internet.
23Chatstep allows the creation of chatrooms by entering the desired room name with a nickname and an optional password. This room can then be accessed by other users of the Chatstep service by sharing the URL of the chatroom. All messages to the Chatstep servers are encrypted. Chatstep does not log messages, images or user information and all data is deleted from the servers upon leaving the chatroom.
24You also admitted first using Chatstep about a year ago and that you last shared about a month prior to your arrest. The full set of these admissions is set out in “Annexure C” in the summary.
25You have made full and frank admissions to police about your offending. The s.16BA offending is based solely on your admissions to the police.
26In the course of the record of interview the following exchange took place between yourself and the police, and this is just a summary of some of them:
· You have described the child exploitation material that you had accessed in your interview and after you were asked to do so by police. You said as follows:
"Oh, it looks like that they must have been groomed before by the perpetrator, um, because a lot of them aren't forced, a lot of them are like partaking, so obviously the perpetrator must have, um, - - -".
· Then you go on to say:
"Just that it's disgusting, you know? For me it was more like a - it was like - it was like an accident, like you're shocked when you see it, you go, 'Oh, geez', like click it off and that, but then you
start to view more pornography, the images come up, you know, and it's hard to explain, you know, you just start developing like an urge to see them".
· You then confirmed that the children depicted in the files on your phone were aged between - probably between five and 16. Both male and female children were depicted. You were then asked by the police why you downloaded the files on a USB and you stated as follows:
"I just had a bit of a sick addiction. I started, you know - started - you're viewing the photographs that are a bit - you know, a bit - it's really shocking and then you're like - yeah, I don't know, 'I'm not looking at that', and then I suppose as time went on you sort of - you know, you grew a bit of a - you grew an addiction to it, you know, like it was - you know, it seems a lot like driving past like an accident and you've got to look. You don't want to look but you do look, sort of thing, you know?"
· You were then asked what was it that you got out of the child pornography or looking at the child pornography and you said as follows:
"It was probably a sexual, um, fantasy out of it, like an addiction to it, just viewing it. I would never actually go to that level, actually commit crimes to children myself. It was just more personally - more like a fantasy aspect of it".
· At the conclusion of the interview you apologised and expressed a willingness to cooperate with police. You said as follows:
"These events were a good kick in the arse to sort of start changing my life because I definitely wouldn't even, you know, just actually do anything to a child. It's more the - like I said to you before, it's just - it's just sort of like - it's like an addiction".
27You justified the offending on the basis that the material starts becoming normal and that you were encouraged by others who provided links and direction. You did not even know about those websites until that time. Otherwise you just “stuck to the normal sort of porn standard stuff”.
28Your admissions indicate that you have some insight into your offending. You have pleaded guilty at the earliest time.
Your Personal Circumstances
29You are now 53 years old. At the time of the offending you were between the ages of 49 and 52 years of age. You are the fourth child of a sibship of five. You were born in Aberdeen, Scotland, and moved to Australia with your family when you were six years old. Both your parents are deceased.
30You attended primary school and high school in the area of south-west of Melbourne in which you completed up to Year 10 level. You commenced work first as a cooking top quality tester. This role lasted for approximately three years.
31You then worked for Toyota for 32 years until its closure in 2017. You have been unable to obtain employment since the time of that redundancy. You are keen to re-enter the workforce. You have been married to your wife, Rita, for 34 years. You have three adult children.
32You have told your wife every detail about your offending and she has stayed to support you. Your wife and daughter attended your plea hearing. I note that they are here today. You have ceased all online sexual behaviour since your arrest.
33You have told Dr Matthew Barth, forensic psychologist, that you commenced
your offending and progression from adult pornography to child pornography when you had declining intimacy in your marriage. This coincided with being advised that Toyota was closing its plant and you would be made redundant.
34You told Dr Barth that you had repeatedly accessed pornographic material depicting children and you used that material for masturbatory fantasies which point to an unequivocal deviant sexuality in his view. Dr Barth assesses you as a moderate risk of reoffending. Dr Barth recommends sex offender treatment program to assist you with your rehabilitation.
35You have also been assessed and treated by Chantelle Kyriakides, a forensic psychologist. She prepared a report dated 25 August 2018. Dr Kyriakides has treated you for eight one hour sessions between January 2018 and June 2018. This treatment is continuing.
36Dr Kyriakides diagnoses you to have a depressed mood and anxiety relating to your current legal situation. The principles of Verdins case are not relied upon in your case. You have no prior convictions. You have sought medical and psychological help immediately after your arrest.
37You retain the support of your wife and children. You have some insight into your offending but you still have a way to go on this issue. I have had the advantage of hearing you give evidence. You exposed yourself to cross- examination by the learned prosecutor and questions from me. You made frank concessions about your offending and expressed regret at your offending. I accept your remorse for this offending is genuine.
Sentencing Considerations
38Charges 1 and 2 are Commonwealth offences, s.16A (2) sets out the sentencing principles to be applied in your case. There are many factors I must take into account when sentencing you and they include the following:
1. The principles of general deterrence;
2. The nature and circumstances of the offence, including your moral culpability;
3.The maximum applicable penalties to the charges;
4. If the offence has formed a part of a course of conduct consistent with its use of criminal acts of the same or similar character then that course of conduct which is applicable here;
5.The fact that you have pleaded guilty to the charges;
6. The degree to which you have cooperated with law enforcement agencies and the investigations of the offences;
7. The deterrent effect of any sentence or order under consideration that may have on you; that is specific deterrence;
8.The need to ensure that are adequately punished for the offences;
9. Your character, antecedence, age, the means and physical and mental condition;
10. The probable effect of any sentence or order under consideration might have on your family or dependants; and
11.The prospects of your rehabilitation.
39Finally, under the Commonwealth legislation, sentencing prisoners to a term of imprisonment in a last resort.
40I have regard to the current sentencing practices for this type of offending across Australia in respect of Charges 1 and 2 and in Victoria in respect of Charge 3.
41I have noted that the bundle of case summaries which were helpfully provided to me by the prosecutor. I am also required to take into account current sentencing practices in fixing your sentence. That enquiry is directed
particularly but not exhaustively to the kind of sentences imposed in comparable cases and statistics for those sentences. I have considered the statistics and current sentencing practices mindful that each case must be considered in the light of its own particular circumstances and many of the cases would be distinguishable from your case as indeed they are from one another.
42Of course current sentencing practices is but one of the many considerations I take into account when fixing the total sentence for all of your offending in this case.
43You have pleaded guilty to these charges and indicated your intention to do so at an early time. You have cooperated with the police at the time of the search and at the time of your record of interview. I gained the impression from your answers to the police that you were rather relieved that you had been caught.
44Your plea of guilty has utilitarian value of allowing the orderly administration of justice. There is a certainty of outcome and the resolution of the substantive issues raised by your offending. Your plea also allows for the preservation of the court and police resources to deal with other matters. Your plea also vindicates the public confidence in the legal process set up to protect the community. I accept your plea of guilty indicates and demonstrates some remorse on your part.
45The objective seriousness of your offending is indicated by a number of factors:
(a), you have accessed child pornography over a period of three to four years;
(b), on separate occasions you have engaged in transmitting child pornography material;
(c), this was done not for profit but rather to feed your perversion;
(d), you have downloaded and possessed a large number of images and
videos; and
(e), in total you have 2,462 separate files. Of those files you have a total of 384 videos.
46The majority or in statistical terms the mode of images are in Categories 3 and 4 of the Anvil classification categories. I have previously detailed the nature of the sample of child pornography in these reasons and will not repeat them here.
47You also accessed and possessed materials in Categories 1, 2, 5 and 6 of the Anvil classification. Possessing, accessing and transmitting child pornography is a very serious offending. In essence you are an end user in this market of depravity where young children are exploited and violated.
48In general terms child pornography is depraved, abhorrent and remorseless exploitation of young people who are the subjects of the videos and the photographs you have viewed. These children are manipulated by cruel adults who subject them to degrading and distressing experiences that affect their self- esteem, their physical and psychological wellbeing and their personal development.
49It is all done for profit. If there was no consumers of them or market for this pornographic material there is no profit and hence no affected children. Your criminal activity is the basis of this child pornography market.
50In Victoria it is now the law that unless exceptional circumstances exist the sentence involving an immediate term of imprisonment is ordinarily warranted for these offences and I refer to the case of DPP v Garside, a Victorian Court of Appeal decision as an authority for that proposition. The broad principle of sentencing is that each case must be decided according to its own circumstances.
51The basic sentencing principles are set out in the case of DPP v Smith, and I will now refer to them. In that case Nettle JA, as he then was, enunciated the principles which apply to sentencing child sex offenders and/or pornographers.
52First, the nature and gravity of the offence ordinarily falls to be determined by reference to the four criteria set out in R v Gent case and they are as follows:
(a), the nature and content of the material, in particular the age of the children and the gravity of the sexual activity depicted;
(b), the number of images or items possessed;
(c), whether the material is for the purpose of sale or further distribution; (d), whether the offender will profit from the offending.
53In the case of child pornography for personal use the number of children depicted and thereby the victims is also regarded as a relevant consideration.
54Secondly, General deterrence is regarded as the paramount sentencing consideration because of the public interest in stifling the provision and use of child pornography and less or limited weight is given to an offender's prior good character because it has been the experience of the courts that such offences are committed frequently by persons of otherwise good character. That is you.
55Dr Barth has assessed you as a moderate risk of reoffending. You have offended consistently for a period of three to four years. You have engaged in transmission of textual child pornography and made child pornography material available to others by using a carriage service between December 2016 and December 2017. That is set out in the s.16BA notice.
56I accept your expression of remorse is genuine. I regard your prospects of rehabilitation as reasonably hopeful, taking into account your strong family support, the fact that you sought out treatment immediately after your arrest and your developing understanding of the effect of your offending on the
children depicted in the pornographic images that were in your possession.
57In relation to the sentencing for Charge 2 and s.16BA offending I take into account an emphasis on the personal deterrence or specific deterrence for you and the sentencing principle of retribution. I note that Charge 2 relates to one day and that s.16BA is over a period of one year. The offending is based solely on your admissions.
58Under the Serious Offender Provisions of the Sentencing Act if you have been convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment in respect of Charges 1 and
2 I am required on the sexual offences charges thereafter to regard the protection of the community from you as a principal purpose for which the sentence is to be imposed.
59If necessary in order to achieve that purpose of protecting the community I am empowered under s.6B of the Sentencing Act to impose a sentence greater than that which is proportionate to the gravity of the offence itself. This means that the sentencing task in respect of Charge 3 on the indictment is to be undertaken on the basis that the protection of the community from you as a principal purpose for which the sentence is to be imposed. To achieve that purpose a sentence may be imposed longer than that which is proportionate to the gravity of the offending. Considered in the light of the objective circumstances
60Section 6E of the Sentencing Act also requires unless I otherwise direct with respect to Charge 3 of the indictment that the sentence I impose on you is to be served cumulatively. I note that the prosecution did not call for a disproportionate sentence for all of the cumulation contemplated under s.6D or 6E of the Sentencing Act allowing for the matters which I have outlined in these reasons.
61In my view it is appropriate to impose only that degree of cumulation for which I subsequently refer, reflecting as it does several events of sexual offending by
you. To do otherwise may produce a sentence which is not proportionate and it would breach the principles of totality in sentencing.
62The principles of general and specific deterrence are significant factors in assessing your total sentence to achieve a just sentence and for the protection of the community.
63I have sentenced you as a serious sexual offender and note that in the record of the court pursuant to s.6F of the Sentencing Act I order that you be placed on the Sex Offenders Registration for life. Each of the charges, that is Charges 1, 2 and 3 are Class 2 charges.
64Would you stand please?
65On Charge 3 you are convicted and sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment. I fix a non-parole period of 12 months for the State sentence. On Charge 1 you are convicted and sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment. On Charge 2 you are convicted and sentenced to 12 months' imprisonment.
66The sentence in Charge 3 is to commence today. The sentence in Charge 1 is to commence on 26 June 2019. The sentence in Charge 2 is to commence on
26 March 2020. On my calculation the total effective sentence for the Commonwealth charges is 21 months.
67The cumulation for all of the State and Federal cases means your total effective sentence is 30 months, two years and six months and I fix a non-parole period in relation to both the State and Federal sentences collectively of 18 months.
68I declare that you have served eight days pre-sentence detention. But for your plea of guilty which is pursuant to s.6AAA of the Sentencing Act I would have sentenced you to four years with two and a half years imprisonment non-parole period.
69I am just going to have that draft order - sorry, is there something you wanted to say?
70MS BROWN: No, Your Honour, I was just going to say that if Your Honour is amenable to giving myself and the learned prosecutor a moment just to check the orders?
71HIS HONOUR: Yes. What I was proposing to do I have a draft order done and I was going to have copies of it handed to you both so I can just clarify before anyone goes because there is always a problem with State and Federal sentences.
72MS BROWN: Thank you, Your Honour.
73HIS HONOUR: You can take a seat, Mr Hedditch.
74MS BROWN: Your Honour, I am conscious that there are other matters that Your Honour has to deal with. I was wondering if Your Honour would be amenable to standing this matter down. The learned prosecutor and I can spend a few moments just checking that the orders are in accordance with what Your Honour's intentions are.
75Then if Your Honour intends to proceed with some other matters - - -
76HIS HONOUR: Yes, I can do that. Can I ask is it possible to just hold Mr Hedditch out the back of the courtroom here please? Thank you. Before I let you go,
Ms Go, I am just going to hand back - this was - I do not know what is on that disk because I did not look at it. I am handing it back in case I think it is - no, it is not that.
77MS GO: It is the digital evidence package.
78HIS HONOUR: Then also this document here, Ms Go. You will see I have got a yellow sticker in the page in there and there is some highlighting on one of
them.
79MS GO: Yes, Your Honour. I did pass on what Your Honour stated on the last occasion.
80HIS HONOUR: Yes. Thank you both for your assistance. You are excused and come back when you are sorted.
81MS BROWN: Thank you, Your Honour.
82(Short adjournment.)
83HIS HONOUR: Ms Brown?
84MS BROWN: Thank you for that time, Your Honour. I have just been going through the figures with the learned prosecutor and there is just a few things I would like to clarify with Your Honour if that is okay.
85HIS HONOUR: Certainly.
86MS BROWN: It is Your Honour's intention to give in effect a total effective sentence of two and a half years and require that Mr Hedditch spends 18 months before being released.
87HIS HONOUR: Yes, non-parole, yes.
88MS BROWN: That is right. Now, because the total effective Commonwealth sentence, ignoring Charge 3 - - -
89HIS HONOUR: Less than three years.
90MS BROWN: It has to be a recognisance release order.
91HIS HONOUR: Unless - and I should have announced this - I think there is a section in there where because of the nature of the combination first of all of the two sets of sentences, that is the State sentence with the Federal sentence,
this case so that to be perfectly frank with you it's for the clarity and cleanness of it that he knows exactly what he has got and when he has got it and when he is eligible for parole.
92MS BROWN: Yes.
93HIS HONOUR: I've got to think what the section is. I think it's just s.16. Is that right, Ms Go? I should have announced my reasons for that when I was sentencing Mr Hedditch that I didn't want to - I don't know how to put this and I'll just say it - I didn't want to tie him up on a recognisance release order because of the - I wanted the sentenced to be properly stacked up - sorry, cumulated so it was clear to everyone, him and to Corrections.
94MS BROWN: Yes. Just while my learned friend is just checking the legislation - - -
95HIS HONOUR: So that's the first issue. We'll come back to that one.
96MS BROWN: Sorry, I'm just looking. It's s.19AC(4), "A court may decline to make a recognisance release order in respect of a person if the court is satisfied that it's not appropriate having regard to the nature and circumstances of the offence or the offender, the antecedence of the person or if the person is expected to be serving a State or Territory sentence on the day after the end of the Federal sentence or the last to be served of the Federal sentences as reduced by any admissions or reductions under s.19AA". Is that it?
97HIS HONOUR: Yes. I know this sentence - he's not going to be serving the State sentence after the Federal sentences.
98MS BROWN: That's correct because the State sentence is the first in time.
99HIS HONOUR: Yes, because I can't delay the start for the State sentence.
100MS BROWN: Yes.
101HIS HONOUR: So that's and "or", the (b). So in relation to (a) - sorry, I better go back, sub-s.(4)(a), "A court may decline to make a recognisance release order in respect of a person if (a), the court is satisfied that such an order is not appropriate having regard to the nature and circumstances of the offence or offences concerned and the antecedence of the person concerned".
102It's on that basis that I propose not to.
103MS BROWN: Yes. The learned prosecutor will correct me if I'm wrong. The difficulty with that, Your Honour, is that I don't believe that sub-section gives Your Honour the power to impose a non-parole period in relation to the Commonwealth sentences. So where someone is sentenced to a period of imprisonment the court can decline to set a recognisance release in circumstances where they will be in custody for longer, but I don't believe that it gives Your Honour the option to create a non-parole period for the Commonwealth offences because the release mechanism for a sentence of under three years has to be recognisance release.
104Your Honour can decline to set a non-parole period in certain circumstances and Your Honour can decline to set a recognisance release in certain circumstances, but if Your Honour is declining to set a recognisance release this legislation doesn't give Your Honour the other option of releasing Mr Hedditch.
105HIS HONOUR: So just to be clear about that so I can be clear, are you saying that because of the function of the legislation, Commonwealth legislation, I can't give him a non-parole period? The totality of the sentence is 30 months - that I can't give him a non-parole period that applies to any part of the Commonwealth sentence?
106MS BROWN: That's correct. What it means is that Mr Hedditch would serve the entirety of the Commonwealth sentence.
107HIS HONOUR: Yes, the whole lot. That is not my intention.
108MS BROWN: Yes. My learned friend and I have discussed some ways that Your Honour's intention can be given effect and it really just relates or it relates primarily to the setting of - sorry, the ordering of release upon recognisance and what it would mean however is that the total effective sentence on both the Commonwealth and the State, when taking individual sentences into account, would be two and a half years where he would be eligible for release after serving 18 months.
109He would be eligible for release after serving 12 months of the State sentence but the Commonwealth sentence would keep him in for another six months. Then he would be released on recognisance and that recognisance period - sorry, the period of imprisonment would be for another - would take him up to the two and a half years, and then Your Honour could set whatever period of good behaviour Your Honour thought was appropriate in the circumstances.
110We have commencement dates and duration of sentences if that would assist Your Honour, but it does change - the way that we have solved the problem means with Your Honour's original orders the total effective Commonwealth sentence was 21 months.
111HIS HONOUR: That's correct.
112MS BROWN: And the way that we have fashioned a sentence that would give effect to Your Honour's intention means the total effective Commonwealth sentence would only be 18 months, but it does mean that he would be released after serving the 18 months and then would have that further 12 months hanging over his head on recognisance.
113The other option of course - - -
114HIS HONOUR: Just hang on, I'm just thinking about that. Because my order would only be then that he has 18 months on the Commonwealth offences.
That's not what I was ordering.
115MS BROWN: That's correct, so if Your Honour wanted him to have a total effective Commonwealth sentence of 21 months then the sentence imposed on Charge 1 instead of being of 18 months duration might have to be of 21 months duration or the sentence imposed on Charge 2 instead of being 12 months would have to be 15 months.
116There's a lot of numbers going around.
117HIS HONOUR: Just go back to that last bit. Charge 2 - see in the sentencing there has to be some reflection of the additional offending of Charge 2 over Charge 1.
118MS BROWN: Yes.
119HIS HONOUR: You can probably see how I got to the two and a half years by my start dates.
120MS BROWN: Yes.
121HIS HONOUR: That's how I was doing the cumulation and I was taking into account in respect of Charge 2 the fact that most of that is based on his own admissions and that that's why a large part of it is concurrent. But there must be a way - this must come up in Commonwealth cases all the time.
122There must be a way that - just excuse me. Mr Hedditch, this is paperwork. Let me assure you your sentence will not change from being two and a half years as a head sentence, maximum term inside versus 18 months minimum term.
123MS BROWN: It happens in every Commonwealth/State joint indictment.
124HIS HONOUR: Do you know the Commonwealth Attorney-General, Ms Brown?
125MS BROWN: If only, Your Honour, if only, but certainly it happens all the time.
It's a matter for Your Honour how this can proceed because there are a number
of different ways, there are a number of different ways that Your Honour's intention can be reflected in the sentences. My concern is that by imposing a non-parole period on the Commonwealth offences it means that he won't be able to be released and that's clearly not what Your Honour wants to happen.
126HIS HONOUR: No.
127MS BROWN: So the question is - - -
128HIS HONOUR: What I want - it's probably just trite to say - I want him to have the chance of serving his time, his hard time, which is the 18 months, and the chance of being on parole for 12 months or the like so he has - they'll have him on sex offender programs and the like, and so that it's all continued and the treatment continues so he gets better on the way out. That's what I was thinking.
129MS BROWN: Yes. An alternative way that we can do that, Your Honour, is by making the sentence imposed on Charge 1 the base sentence and having Charge 3 commence later in time, because Your Honour can decline to set a recognisance release in those circumstances because if it - - -
130HIS HONOUR: I see, yes, so that Charge 1 and Charge 3 sentences run concurrently. That's what that would mean.
131MS BROWN: Unless Your Honour dictated that the sentence imposed on Charge 3 commenced later.
132HIS HONOUR: Sorry, my mistake. I can't, that's a State sentence.
133MS BROWN: Sorry, the State sentence has to start today. Of course Your Honour can - is it Your Honour's wish that he completes a sex offender program whilst in custody or whilst on parole?
134HIS HONOUR: They do it in custody but he needs it on parole as well. That's what they're doing now. When I say they, the Parole Board when they've got
people such as your client. Because he's got enough time in gaol they do a sex offenders' program on the way in, one on the way out and then they follow it up at an Adult Parole Board level.
135MS BROWN: The completion of the sex offender treatment program can be made a condition of the recognisance so that he wouldn't necessarily be on parole but it would still be a condition that he must comply with or face a return to custody to resume the unserved portion of the sentence.
136HIS HONOUR: Let's think about that one. How about if we do it like this?
Charge 3 is 18 months commencing today, Charge 1 is part of the recognisance it will become, but that starts today, that Charge 2 starts in 18 months' time. That's two and a half years.
137MS BROWN: Yes.
138HIS HONOUR: When I say 18 months' time it's 18 months from the 26th going back to when he first went into custody, so 18 months from that date - sorry, 12 months from that date in 18 months' time. That means he's still got the two and a half years.
139MS BROWN: Yes.
140HIS HONOUR: That means his Commonwealth sentence is two and a half years. A recognisance release order to serve 18 months. Am I still going okay?
141MS BROWN: Yes, absolutely.
142HIS HONOUR: Then a condition of his release is that he receives - - -
143MS BROWN: Sex offender treatment.
144HIS HONOUR: Yes.
145MS BROWN: Those orders would give effect to Your Honour's intentions. Out of completeness, and I don't want to throw the proverbial spanner in the
works - - -
146HIS HONOUR: You must.
147MS BROWN: The sex offender treatment program I'm told that if it is to be completed as part of a recognisance or parole period the authorities generally require 18 months to two years to allow that to be completed. I'm not in any way suggesting that Your Honour should extend the period to allow that treatment to take place but it would have - any orders would simply have to reflect that Mr Hedditch would have to complete as much as possible of the sex offender treatment program as a condition of his recognisance.
148But if he got through 12 months of recognisance and there was a few more sessions then - - -
149HIS HONOUR: If it's a three year recognisance he's got 18 months from his release - no, he hasn't - yes, he has.
150MS BROWN: Sorry, Your Honour is quite right because of course the period of the recognisance is separate to the term of imprisonment so yes, in that case if
- so Charge 1, 18 months starts today, Charge 3, 18 months starts today, Charge 2, 12 months to start in 18 months and upon release he is to complete the sex offender treatment program and be of otherwise good behaviour for that period.
151HIS HONOUR: That gives effect to what I want to happen. The only problem with that is it's definitely a legal nicety as far as your client is concerned, but it doesn't reflect the cumulation for Charge 3 which is the serious sexual offender bit.
152MS BROWN: Yes, and what it might be appropriate to do in the circumstances is for Your Honour to direct in the records of these orders that the Serious Sex Offender Provisions have been recognised and noted and in circumstances where the Crown isn't seeking a disproportionate sentence in Your Honour's
view it was appropriate to impose these orders.
153HIS HONOUR: To give effect to what I want to do.
154MS BROWN: That's correct.
155HIS HONOUR: Yes, I can do that.
156MS BROWN: Your Honour, I've just had a discussion with my learned friend so because it's a single recognisance release mechanism and so what Your Honour's orders may look like is that Charge 1 is a sentence of 18 months commencing today, Charge 2 is a sentence of 12 months to commence 18 months after the commencement of the sentence imposed on Charge 1, order that the offender be released on recognisance after serving 18 months of that period, to be of good behaviour and complete the Sex Offenders Program for a period of - - -
157HIS HONOUR: Three years.
158MS BROWN: That's correct, because then the term of imprisonment has clearly been specified - sorry, the term of imprisonment in relation to both Charges 1 and 2 has been specified, but also the period of that imprisonment that is required to be served before the release mechanism has effect is also specified.
159So in my view those orders would give effect to what Your Honour is seeking to achieve.
160HIS HONOUR: Is anyone going to write them up for me?
161MS BROWN: Your Honour, if Your Honour is amenable to stand down again and go off the Bench my learned friend and I can prepare the recognisance and provide a copy of that to Your Honour's associate.
162HIS HONOUR: Yes, thanks. Again that still won't reflect in specifics the difference between three and the other two, the serious sexual offender bit, but
it's noted on the records.
163MS BROWN: That's right, so it won't be noted on the recognisance but it will go in the record of orders that is generated.
164HIS HONOUR: Yes, in that case that might take you a little while.
165MS BROWN: Maybe five to ten minutes, if we let Your Honour's associate know.
166HIS HONOUR: I've got another matter on at 12 so we'll be able to fix that up before then.
167MS BROWN: Yes, I would have thought so, Your Honour.
168HIS HONOUR: I'm sorry about this, Mr Hedditch. This happens every time in a Commonwealth/State offence.
169OFFENDER: I understand, Your Honour.
170HIS HONOUR: No-one can explain to you or anyone in your position the unnecessary complexities inherent in State and Federal sentencing laws. I'm not the only one to say that. They complain about it in the Court of Appeal as well. Do you agree, Ms Go, that we can do it that way?
171MS GO: Yes, if it's taken as kind of a total effective sentence for the Commonwealth it looks like it will work. Your Honour, just while we're discussing the sentence, if we could have the copy of the s.16BA schedule signed by Your Honour, and also if the recognisance release order could be extended?
172HIS HONOUR: Section 16B is in the exhibits there. Thanks, I'll just get it out.
I gave it an exhibit number, Exhibit A. There it is.
173MS GO: Also, Your Honour, once the recognisance release order paperwork has been settled if Your Honour could please explain to Mr Hedditch the
purpose and consequence of such - - -
174HIS HONOUR: Of that?
175MS GO: Yes.
176HIS HONOUR: Yes. I thought I did in my reasons for sentence but anyway.
177MS BROWN: As I understand, Your Honour, it's simply explaining to the offender that, for example, sometimes a sum is fixed on the recognisance, it's not a sum that has to be paid by the offender.
178HIS HONOUR: Yes, I will explain that part. I thought Ms Go was asking me something else to do with - - -
179MS BROWN: Perhaps if Your Honour - my learned friend and I will just provide those orders and we can have a discussion about if there's anything that needs to be added but thank you for that time, Your Honour, I appreciate it.
180HIS HONOUR: Thank you for your help.
181(Short adjournment.)
182MS BROWN: Thank you for that time, Your Honour. We have a completed recognisance release for Your Honour to sign with the conditions that Mr Hedditch is to complete the Sex Offender Program and any other conditions that are necessary for that.
183The only thing I just need to check with Your Honour is the recognisance sum.
184HIS HONOUR: Yes, $2000.
185MS BROWN: That can be now handed up for Your Honour to sign. In the meantime I've also explained what's just happened.
186HIS HONOUR: To your client?
187MS BROWN: Yes.
188HIS HONOUR: This recognisance has been explained to your client, has it?
189MS BROWN: It has, Your Honour. He's aware that when he's released there's a period of which he's got to comply with the conditions of the recognisance and failure to comply can result in a re-sentencing exercise or the unserved balance of the term of imprisonment being required to be served.
190HIS HONOUR: Yes, thank you. I will sign that recognisance. There's a Sex Offender Registration. If you could be kind enough to approach the dock and explain it to your client?
191MS BROWN: Yes, thank you. I apologise for this, Your Honour, there's an unnecessarily complex - - -
192HIS HONOUR: No, wrong way round. I'm grateful for your assistance.
193MS BROWN: Not at all.
194HIS HONOUR: No apology needed for this.
195MS BROWN: Thank you, Your Honour. Mr Hedditch has signed the recognisance and the acknowledgment of the provision of the regulations. I believe Your Honour's associate also needs to sign both of those forms, but certainly he understands what the obligations are and that he'll have an opportunity to go through what those are more comprehensively, thank you, Your Honour.
196HIS HONOUR: Yes, they are very lengthy. I think that completes this matter, doesn't it?
197MS BROWN: Yes, Your Honour.
198HIS HONOUR: I was thinking, believe it not, out the back as to how this constant problem can be rectified. I'm not saying this is the answer but maybe
if there was a Commonwealth charge of possessing child exploitation material. There might be some difficulty about that charge on a constitutional basis.
199MS BROWN: There is a charge of possession but it's possession with a specific intention and as I understand most of the time it's the Director's view that too hard basket.
200HIS HONOUR: They don't do it.
201MS BROWN: But certainly it may be that the possession charges shouldn't be charged, but should otherwise be taken into consideration.
202HIS HONOUR: In the other, the accessing.
203MS BROWN: Yes.
204HIS HONOUR: Anyway that's not for me. I'm just here to referee, as they say, but it needs looking at because this is a constant problem.
205MS BROWN: In a previous life, Your Honour, I was part heard before His Honour Judge Taft on four separate occasions trying to correct a breach of recognisance where a further recognisance had to be imposed and it is an unnecessarily complex task.
206HIS HONOUR: Thank you. I want to thank you both for your assistance in this case and the informant, thank you. Mr Hedditch, you have got a lot to come back to when you get out.
207OFFENDER: Yes, Your Honour.
208HIS HONOUR: Look after it. Thanks. Remove the prisoner, thank you.
- - -
IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA NO. CR-18-01163 AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION
THE QUEEN
-v-
BROCK HEDDITCH (a pseudonym name)
SUMMARYOFPROSECUTIONOPENINGFORPLEA
INDICTMENTANDMAXIMUMPENALTIES
The offender is to be sentenced for the following Commonwealth offences:
| Charge | Offence | Maximum Penalty |
| 1 | Between the 12th day of January 2014 and the 7th day of December 2017, at Werribee and elsewhere in Victoria, BROCK HEDDITCH1 accessed material using a carriage service, the material being child pornography material, contrary to | 15 years |
| 2 | On or about the 25th day of September 2017, BROCK HEDDITCH at Werribee in Victoria, transmitted material using a carriage service, the material being child pornography material, contrary to s. 474.19 of the Criminal Code. | 15 years |
A further charge, relating to the sharing of child pornography, pursuant to s. 474.19 of the Criminal Code (Cth) is scheduled and to be taken into account pursuant to s. 16BA of the Crimes Act (Cth).
The offender is also to be sentenced for the following State offence:
| Charge | Offence | Maximum Penalty |
| 3 | On the 21st day of December 2017 at Werribee in Victoria, BROCK HEDDITCH knowingly possessed child abuse material contrary to s 51G(1) Crimes Act 1958 (Vic) | 10 years |
DETECTION OF OFFENDING / ARREST & WARRANT
The Australian Federal Police (AFP) commenced investigating the activities of the offender following detection of his Skype communications with a United Kingdom (UK) offender.1
This led to the execution of a search warrant upon the offender’s home on 21 December 20172.
1 A pseudonym name
1 That offender has also been arrested and charged in relation to 20 x child sex offences involving his children and, sharing online.
2 38 Rowes Rd, Werribee; see RODGER re production of s. 3E Crimes Act (Cth) warrant
ADMISSIONS
The offender participated in a recorded conversation with police during the execution of the warrant and, a subsequent formal record of interview. In combination, the following admissions were made about accessing and sharing child pornography34:
·He started to look at Child Exploitation Material (CEM) about one (1) year ago5;
·It was a fantasy, visual thing for him about CEM, nothing else6;
·He downloads CEM on his mobile phone using an application called Chatstep7;
·He uses Chatstep because it is an encrypted website;
·He would save CEM on his mobile phone on an application called “Mega;”
·He installed Chatstep and Mega on his mobile phone for the purpose of downloading and saving CEM8;
·He has uploaded CEM on Chatstep9;
·The last time he uploaded onto Chatstep was about one month ago;
·He primarily uses his mobile phone to look at CEM10;
·There are about 90 files of CEM on his mobile phone;
·He admitted that if an image appealed to him, then he would store it on his phone;
·He has used the HP Pavilion ‘all in one computer’ to download and view CEM11;
·There are about 140 files of CEM on a USB; 12
·Once the files had been downloaded onto his USB, he plugged it into the PC at home and viewed the contents;13and
·He knows it is illegal to download and possess CEM.14
The three electronic devices referred to by the Offender were located and seized after preliminary analysis confirmed the existence of CEM on the following three items:
Exhibits Description 3517556/001 1 x White Apple iPhone 5c 3517556/002 1 x White and Silver HP Pavilion ‘all in one computer’ 3517556/004 1 x Black and Red Sandisk USB
CLASSIFICATION & ITEMISATION OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY (COUNTS 1 & 3)
A combined total of 2462 unique CEM files were found on the iPhone and USB. The file creation and modified dates for these items were dated between 12 January 2014 and 7 December 201715.
3 Statement of A. DISHINGTON (AFP)
4 Transcript of DROC and DROI with HEDDITCH
5 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH: Q.153 – Q.154
6 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH: Q.169 – Q.174 & Q.181
7 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH: Q.118 – Q.130 8 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH: Q.346 – Q. 352 9 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH: Q.243
– Q.258 10 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH:
Q.259
11 Transcript of DROC with HEDDITCH: Q.260
12 Q124, 127 – ERI
13 Q147 to 151 – ERI
14 Q116 to 124 – DROC
15 Statement of A. DISHINGTON (AFP)
The following table contains a breakdown of the classification of the CEM files located on the two devices16:
Cat 1 Cat 2 Cat 3 Cat 4 Cat 5 Cat 6 Total Images 521 4 786 718 47 2 2078 Videos 3 45 45 286 5 0 384 Total 524 49 831 1004 52 2 2462
The CEM was classified according to the “ANVIL” system. Annexure A outlines the nature of each ANVIL category.
iPhone
The iPhone was passcode protected17 and 259 child pornography video files and 44 child pornography picture files were identified on the iPhone. The following is a breakdown of the classification of the child pornography items identified from the iPhone:
Cat 1 Cat 2 Cat 3 Cat 4 Cat 5 Cat 6 Total Images 5 0 5 32 0 2 44 Videos 2 6 23 223 5 0 259 Total 7 6 28 255 5 2 303
The earliest file creation date for the child pornography located on the iPhone is dated 12 January 2014. The last file creation date for child pornography located on the device is 11 November 2017. 18
BlackandRedSandiskCruzerEdgeUSBFlashDrive
The USB contained a substantial proportion of the CEM identified:
Cat 1 Cat 2 Cat 3 Cat 4 Cat 5 Cat 6 Total Images 516 4 781 686 47 0 2034 Videos 1 39 22 63 0 0 125 Total 517 43 803 749 47 0 2159
The file creation dates for the child pornography located on this USB ranged between 15 June 2016 to 7 December 2017.
16 Statement of J. ARCARO (AFP Digital Forensics) – Duplicates removed
17 “1980”
18 P. 121
SampleImages/Videos
The following are samples of images / videos identified in relation to each ANVIL category:
a) Category1
o An image of a close up of a young girl aged between 8 – 12 years old vagina area.
o Another image is of a naked young boy aged between 8 – 12 years old penis and anus area.
b) Category2
o An image of a naked young boy aged between 10 – 14 years old being masturbated by a naked young girl aged between 10 – 14 years old.
o An image of a naked young boy aged between 10 – 14 years old who is holding his penis and has just ejaculated over his stomach and face.
c) Category3
o An image of a young girl under the age of 10 masturbating a male.
o An image of a young boy aged between 8 -12 years old licking a male penis.
d) Category4
o An image of a young boy aged between 6 – 8 years old performing fellatio on an adult male.
o An image of an adult male having anal intercourse with young boy aged between 10 – 14 years old.
e) Category5
o An image showing a naked young boy aged between 10 – 14 years old tied up by his ankles and wrists to a door with tape covering his mouth.
o An image of a naked boy aged between 2 – 5 years old with his feet tied up and in the process of having his hands tied up on the ground.
f) Category6
o An image of a naked young boy aged between 10 – 14 years old sitting on a naked male’s lap.
Admissionsrenatureofchildpornographyaccessed/ReasonsforOffending
The offender also described the CEM that he had accessed in his interview, after he was asked to do so by police:
“Oh, it looks like they’re, um – ah, they must have been groomed before by the perpetrator, um, because a lot of – lot of them, I – a lot of them aren’t forced, a lot of them are, like – are partaking. Um, so obviously the perpetrator must have, ah - - -“19
19 Q138
And:
“Oh, just that it’s disgusting. You know, for – for me it was more like a – it was like – it was like an accident, like you’re shocked when you see it, you know, “Oh, jeez,” like click it off and that, but when you start to view more pornography, the images come up, you know. It’s – it’s hard to explain, you know, you just start developing a – a – like a – a urge to see them.”20
The Offender confirmed that the children depicted in the files on the offender’s phone were aged probably between 5 to 16 or so.21 Male and female children were depicted.22
When asked why he downloaded the files onto his USB, the offender stated:
“Oh, I just had a bit of a – a sick addiction. I started – you know, started
– you’re viewing photos that are a bit – you – you – it’s a bit – it’s really shocking and then you’re like, “Yeah, oh, no, I’m not looking at that,” and then I suppose as – ah, as time went on you – you sort of, um, you know, um, grew a bit of, um – like a – like a – a addiction to it, you know, like, it
– you know. Seems a lot like driving past, like, ah, accidents, and you –
you gotta look – you don’t want to look but you – you – you do look, sort of thing, you know? 23”
The Offender was asked about what he got out of looking at child pornography. He admitted:
“Oh, it was probably, ah, sexual, um, um, fantasies out of it, like an addiction to it, just viewing it. I would never actually go to that level and actually commit crimes to children myself. It was just more personally – ah, more like a fantasy aspect of it.24”
At the conclusion of the interview, the offender apologized and expressed a willingness to cooperate. 25 He said that this was probably:
‘a good kick in the arse to sort of start changing my life. Because I definitely wouldn’t even, you know, just actually do anything to a child. It’s more the – like I said to you before, then, just – just the – the – it – it sort of is more like a – like a addiction sort of [….]’
The Offender justified the offending on the basis that the material starts becoming ‘normal’ and that he was encouraged by others who provided links and direction – he did not even know about these websites until that time. Otherwise, he would have just ‘stuck to the normal sort of porn, standard stuff.’26
20 Q140
21 Q142
22 Q146
23 Q153 – ERI
24 Q156
25 Q379 to 380
26 Q385
CHARGE 2 & s. 16BA offence– Transmit and make available CEM (“Kik” conversations)
Kik messenger is a free instant messaging application for mobile phones. It uses the handset data to send and receive messages from other users, as well as send and receive pictures and videos. Users can register with Kik without supplying a mobile phone number. Although users supply a first and last name, as well as a birth date when registering, these details are not verified and therefore users can choose to register under any name and age.
The application Kik messenger was installed and operational on the offender’s iPhone. The offender’s public username for the Kik application is ‘crcouplemelb’.
Transmitchildpornography(Count2)
Charge 2 communications relate to the transmission of textual child pornography.27
On or about 25 September 2017, the Offender, as ‘crcouplemelb’ communicated with another
Kik user, ’boredgy Sky soahc,’ wherein the following exchange occurred: Sky soahc - Cool cool. U like incest too?
Crcouplemelb - What you into
crcouplemelb - Yes nice
crcouplemelb - Have you played with young ?
Sky soahc - I have a younger cuz i wana bamg but shes kinda young Crcouplemelb - How young ?
Sky soahc - 10 :its bad i know
In his communications with ‘boredgy,’ which are annexed as Annexure B, the Offender described the child pornography he has seen and, his own interests. In particular, the Offender described having seen: “dad son”, “Son jerking dad” and “Young hands on mature cock.” This was followed up with “boredgy” telling the Offender: “Need to find some of that.” In response, the Offender suggested the following:
i. “Try chatstep;”
ii. “Hit or miss;”
iii. “Encryption chatroom;” and
iv. “Safe.” 28
This led to ‘boredgy’ asking the offender: “And u obviously have seen younger girls too right[?]” In reply, the offender replied: “Yes all types videos pics” and “have to be lucky.” He then described that he had “seen mature guy fucking 7 year old Asian girl.” This led to ‘boredgy’ disclosing his interest in his ‘cuz,’ which is alleged to be a reference to ‘boredgy’s’ cousin. The communications then led to suggestions by the Offender about what ‘boredgy’ should do with his ‘cuz’, namely:
27 Definition of ‘child pornography’ – s. 473.1 – includes materials which are descriptive.
28 P. 127
i. “Take your time”
ii. “Go slow”
iii. “Just rub your cock on her slit”; and
iv. “Just tickle her pussy first.”
These suggestions constitute textual child pornography.
s.16BAoffence– MakeAvailableChildPornography
The scheduled offence is based on chat communications and the Offender’s admissions in his interview about the sharing of child pornography. There is no forensic IT evidence available to establish the specific volume of child pornography shared.
Following communications with ‘boredgy,’ the Offender also communicated with another associate named ‘aureliendb51 OlderTop4youngerBottom’. The following is a summary of chat log that occurred between the offender, as ‘crcouplemelb’ and another Kik user: ‘OlderTop 4youngerBottom’ on 25 October 2017, wherein a conversation occurred about the Offender’s interests:
crcouplemelb - What ages you like ? OlderTop 4youngerBottom - 12-15 OlderTop 4youngerBottom - You? crcouplemelb - Same crcouplemelb - Hairless
OlderTop 4youngerBottom - And skinny
As part of his communications with this Kik user, the offender asked “You into discrete sharing?’” “Aureliend51” responded positively and asked: “What do you have to share?” The Offender replied: “Dad son”. This led to communications about whether there was a ‘discrete way’ of sharing and, ‘whether Kik was safe.’ 30
Subsequently, aureliendb51 asked the Offender what he had to share. The Offender replied: “some dad young twink stuff[,] you?” However, the Offender indicated that this material was not available on his iPhone – but, he did have stuff ‘on file.’ A discussion then occurred about whether it is safe to share on this platform, 31 leading to the Offender promising to reciprocate with “Aureliendb51” and his sharing, by setting up a Mega account to ‘store them there’ and to ‘share easier.’ 32 He advised that he was unable to presently share, as he was at work – but, he would do so in the future, whilst his wife was not at home.33
Following this exchange, the Offender contacted ‘aureliendb51’ and advised of his ‘mega NZ user name.’ However, ‘Aureliendb51’ replied and apologized, as he had ‘erased everything,’ and he had ‘got scared.’1
As noted above, the Offender admitted to police during the execution of the warrant that he shared child pornography. In those comments, the Offender advised police that he used Chatstep on his iPhone to ‘drag and drop’ to share. (Chatstep is a secure and private web based disposable chat room located at Chatstep allows the creation of chat rooms by entering the desired room name with a nickname and an optional password. This room can then be accessed by other users of the chatstep service by sharing the URL of the chat
7
1 P. 137
room. All messages to the Chatstep servers are encrypted. Chatstep does not log messages, images or user information and all data is deleted from servers upon leaving the chat room).
The offender also admitted first using Chatstep about a year ago and that he last shared probably a month ago. The admissions are extracted in full in Annexure C.
PROCEDURALHISTORY
The offender was arrested and charged on 21 December 2017.
On 1 June 2018, the offender was committed for trial in the County Court after indicating a plea of guilty to each charge on the indictment.
SERIOUSSEXUALOFFENDERPROVISIONS
If the offender is sentenced to a period of imprisonment for charges one and two on the indictment, he must be sentenced as a serious sexual offender in relation to charge three on the indictment, pursuant to Part 2A of the Sentencing Act 1991 (Vic).2
SEXOFFENDERSREGISTRATIONACT
The offender will be required to comply with the reporting requirements imposed by the Sex Offenders Registration Act 2004 (Vic) for the remainder of his life.3
ANTECEDENTS
The Offender is 52 years old, and was aged 52 at the time of the alleged offending.
The Offender is not recorded as having previous convictions.
He is married with 3 adult children.
He is unemployed.
35 Sentencing Act 1991 (Vic) s 6B; s 6C; clause 1 of Schedule 1 – A serious sexual offender means an offender who has been convicted of 2 or more sexual offences for each of which he has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment. Sexual offences are defined as including s. 474.19 offences (Sch 1, cl 1 (df) Sentencing Act). See also s. 6F re recording requirements.
36 Sex Offenders Registration Act 2004 s 34(1)(c)(iii) – s. 474.19 of the CCC and s. 51C of the Crimes Act are 8
offences are class 2 offences (see 15 and 28A, sch. 2 of Sex Offenders Registration Act)
Annexure A
Descriptions of Child Pornography Classification Categories (ANVIL model):
Category Guide 1 – No sexual activity Depictions of Children with No Sexual Activity – however must be sexually suggestive or sexual in nature. Can include nudity, surreptitious images showing underwear (upskirt), sexually suggestive posing, explicit emphasis on genital areas, and solo urination by a child. 2 – Solo/sex acts between children Solo masturbation by a child or sexual acts between children only in which penetration of any orifice does not occur. Includes the penetrative use of sex toys by the victim only. 3 – Non-penetrative
adult/childNon-penetrative sexual activity, between child and adult(s).
May include mutual masturbation and other non- penetrative sexual activity.
4 – Penetrative child/child – adult/child Penetrative sexual activity between children only or adult(s) and children – may include, but is not limited to, vaginal/anal intercourse, cunnilingus and fellatio. Penetrative use of sex toys and/or foreign objects. 5 – Sadism, bestiality, child abuse Sadism, bestiality or humiliation (urination, defecation, vomit, bondage etc.), torture or child abuse. 6 - Animated or virtual Anime, cartoons, comics, computer generated graphics, drawings, audio and text depicting children engaged in sexual poses or activity.
Annexure B
128
Appendix 1l
l(ik messenger - Exhibit 3517556\001 Apple iPhone 5c
Chat Date/ Time Particinants Frore Bodv 1 25/09/201711:56:21
AM(UTC+0)
boredgy Skysoahc
crcouplemelb D � (owner)
crcouplemelb D (8) Oz 1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Skysoahc And u obviously have seen AM(UTC+O) crcounlemelb D (8) (owner) youngergirls tooright
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D (8). Yes all types videos pies AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb □ (8) (owner)
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D (8) Have to be lucky
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb D (8) (owner)
| 1 | 25/09/201711:56:21 | boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Are they as cute naked as i |
| AM(UTC+0) | crcouplemelb D (8) (owner) thinktheyarelol | |
| 1 | 25/09/201711:56:21 | boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb □ (8) Seen mature guy fucking 7 |
| AM(UTC+0) | crcouulemelb □ �(owner) yroldAsiangirl |
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc ·boredgy Skysoahc O.aig how hard haha
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb □ (8) (owner)
25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D (8) Yes full on
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb D (8) (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21
AM(UTC+0)
25/09/2017 11:56:21
boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb □.�(owner)
boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D (8)
She must have been loud as
fuck lol
No quiet well trained
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb □ �(own.er)
25/09/201711:56:21
AM(UTC+o)
25/09/201711:56:21
boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc
crcouplemelb D �(owner)
boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D (8)
Ahh gatcha. Imactually hop:ingmycuzisthough. Loud i meanx3
Just saw this large mature
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb D (8) (owner) cockpenetrate
25/09/201711:56:21' boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D (8) She was hurting
AM(UTC+o) crcouolemelb □ (8) (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc How could u tell??
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb□ @(owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc · crcouplemelb □ (8) The stra:in on her face
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb □ @(owner)
25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Skysoahc Is it bad i thinkthatshott
AM(UTC+0) .crcouolemelb □(8)(owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D @ I know what you mean
AM(UTC+0) crcouplemelb □ ©(owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Cant help it lol AM(UTC+o) crcouplemelb D (8) (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc �rcouplemelb D (8) I don'tjudge people
AM(UTC+o) crcouplemelb D (8) (owner)
|
AM(UTC+0)
25/09/2017 11:56:21
AM(UTC+0)
boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Skysoahc
crcouplemelb D (8) (owner)
boredgy Sky soahc crc�uplemelb □ (8)
crcouplemelb D @(owner)
Q lol soo. Itwillproboly hurt my cuz then? Ohyes
Page 5 of 14
1 29
Appendlix 1
Kik messenger- Exhibit 3517556\001 Apple iPhone 5c
Chat ·Date/ Time Participants From Boc!!_
1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 (8) Wouldu try?
AM'(UTC+O) crcoup1emelb 0 _(ownet}
1'25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky,soahc boredgy Sky soahc Iwant to really bad AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb D (own l
125/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D Be careful AM(lJTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 _(owner)
125/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D Just let her play with u AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 _(_owner}_
125/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcoupleme1b 0 (8) She might tell on u AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8>_(owner)
1 25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Hmmm. illhave to figure it
AM(UTC+O) crcoupleme1b 0 (owner) out
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 (8) · Let her see you nude
AM(UTC+O) rcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Then what?
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0<8>_(ownerl
1 25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb [] She.might want to touch
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8>_(ownel} .
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Skysoahc boredgy Sky soahc So ishou1dntjust take her AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner) cloths off then haha
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Im her fav cuz so idont.
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb . 0 (owner) think shell tell x3
1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Lol AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky sbahc crcouplemelb 0 <8> Nice
AM(UTC+O) crcoupleme1b 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc How bad will it hurt her AM(UTC+O) crcoup1emelb D (own{rr) though?
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb D <8> Take your time AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Til have too. Shes tiny AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcoup1emelb 0 <8> Go slow AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb D <8> (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 ·boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0<8> Just rub your cock on her AM(UTC+O) crcoup_lemelb D <8> (ownerl slit
25/09/2017'11 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Mmmm ugh iwamt to so
AM(UTC+O) . crcouplemelb n @ (owner) bad
25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 <8> Just tickle her pussy first AM(UTC+O) crcoUplemelb D <8> (owner)
25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Skysoahc boredgy Sky soahc Have u done that before?
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (ownerl
| 1 | 25/09/201711:56 :21 | boredgy Sky soahc | ercouplemelb D. <8> | No but be·fun |
| AM(UTC+O) | crcouplemelb D | _(_ownerl |
130
Appendix 1
Kik messenger - Exhibit 3517556\001 Apple iPhone 5c
Chat Date/ Time Participants From Body
125/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 © Mate got to go AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0@(owner)
125/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Like woth the asian girl in AM(UTC+Q) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner) the vid u mentioned, how
bad did it look like he was
hurtin_g_ her?
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Ohok
AM(UTC+O)
1 25109/2017 11:56:21
crcouplemelb 0 @_{owner) boredgy Sky soahc
crcouplemelb 0
Looked hot
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0@ (oWner)
. . '
1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 !8> Flejustkeptpushing AM(UTC+Q) · crcoup1emelb 0 !8> (owri.erl
1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc God thats hot Her face AM(UTC7-0) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner) must have been amazing
1 25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 Yes there's notmuch she.
AM(UTC+Q) crcouplemelb 0 !8> (owner) cando
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Poor thing x3 hehe
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 @(owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 Yehhejlliltheldherdoggy
· AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 (fj) (owner) and took her
25/09/201711 :56:21' boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Wish ico d see the look
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 (8> (owner) she had
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 @ She is smiling at the start AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0@(owner) but as he keeps on fucking
you see the strain
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Mmmmm.Thats so
hott AM(UTC+O) ci:couplemelb 0@ (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc He didnt go easy on her
AM(UTC+Q) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner) huh
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Skysoahc crcouplemelb 0 @ Noway
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner)
25/09/201711:56 :21 boredgy Skysoahc crcouplemelb 0 @ Not jungle fucking just AM(UTC+Q) crcouplemelb 0@(owner) cotlstant
25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Skysoahc boredgy Sky soahc Jungle fucking?
AM(UfC+O) . crcouplemelb 0@ (owner)
.l 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Lol AM(UfC+O) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Skysoahc boredgy Sky soahc I like the sound of that AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 @
Bareback AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0@ (owner)
25/09/201711 :56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc 1m actually seeing my cuz AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 @ (owner) this weekend...
131
Appendix 1l
J{ik messenger - Exhibit 3517556\001
).pple iPhone 5c
Chat Date/ Time Participants From - Body
1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc She has no clue whats in
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8l (owner) store for her x3
125/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 <8> By yourself AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0<8l(owner)
1. 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc · boredgy Sky soahc Proboly for a few hours at AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8l (owner) least
1 25/09/2017 11: 6:2.1 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy SkY soahc Its my aunts bday. So ill
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8l (owner) end up watching her for a
bit
125/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy S.kjsoahc crcouplemelb 0 <8> Make your move AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 (owner)
1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc. boredgy Sky soahc Imganna. Do uthink
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8l (owner) doggy will be easier?
i 25/09/2017 11:56.:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 <8l Yes
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 (8) (owner)
. 1 25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc I cant wait to see her face
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 (ovmer) when i put it in
25/09/20 7 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 Wow
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8l (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc Whatlol
AM(UfC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 <8> Hot
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky soahc X3 cant help it..
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 (8) (owner)
25/09/2017 11:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc boredgy Sky.soahc Its going to be adorable AM(UfC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 <8> Let me know how u go
AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0·<8> (owner)
25/09/201711:56:21 boredgy Sky soahc crcouplemelb 0 (8) Gotto go bye AM(UTC+O) crcouplemelb 0 <8l (owner)
12111/201711:41:54 aureliendb51 OlderTop You started chatting with
AM(UTC+O) 4youngerBottom Oki
crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
12/11/201711:41:54 aureliendb51 OlderTop crcouplemelb 0 <8> Hi loved yourposts
AM(UTC+O) 4youngerBottom
crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
12/11/201711:41:54 aureliendb51 OlderTop crcouplemelb 0 <8> Fan of your
work AM(UTC+O) 4younge Bottom
crcouplemelb 0 <8> (owner)
12/11/2017 11:41:54 aureliendb51 OlderTop aurelie db51 Thanks AM(tiTC+O) 4youngerBottom 01derTop
crcouplemelb 0©_(_owner) 4youngerBottom
Annexure C – Extracts of Interview – Admissions made about the sharing of child pornography
Q234 Okay. And in relation to those images, how do you get to view those images? A C. HEDDITCH: Um, usually just from, ah, Chat – ah, ChatSteps, and - - -
Q235 Yeah. So describe how ChatStep works to a person who’s never used ChatStep before.
AC. HEDDITCH: Well, it’s a – it’s encrypted room. Um, you can make up your own username and it’s got various public rooms. But those various public rooms can be anything. People just set up their own room and they just put up anything they want, just – you know. It might be – there just might be some false name of the – of the name of the chat room, you go in there and people just start, you know, throwing images up.
Q236 And when you go – when you say “throwing those images up” - - - A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q237 - - - what are those images?
A C. HEDDITCH: Like you were describing before. Yeah. Q238 Okay. So they’re child pornography images.
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah, yeah.
Q239 So in relation to those images, what do you do with those images?
AC. HEDDITCH: Um, basically you just – just view them on there, and, um, I’ve got some – some on my phone, and that’s it.
Q240 Okay.
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q241 So do you know how – how people put those images up on there? A C. HEDDITCH: Just like normal sharing.
Q242 Okay, so - - -
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q243 Explain that process.
A C. HEDDITCH: It’s drag and drop whatever you want into the chat room there, you know. Q244 Okay. So when you say you drag and drop images, have you done that?
A C. HEDDITCH: I’ve done it with – on my phone. Q245 Okay.
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q246 So I just need to be clear, so you – in ChatStep, you’re on there and you have got an image, say, from your phone - - -
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q247 - - - and uploaded it to ChatStep. Is that correct? A C. HEDDITCH: From the phone?
Q248 Yeah.
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah, yeah.
Q249 So tell me how that process works.
A C. HEDDITCH: You just, um – um, upload it from your phone.
Q250 Like I said, for someone that’s never done it before, you’re in – you’re in ChatStep, okay, and how does the image get from your phone into ChatStep?
AC. HEDDITCH: Well, just open up your phone, the files and – you see the files and you – you drop it into the – into the chat room.
Q251 So when you say you’ve done that, when was the last time you did that? A C. HEDDITCH: Um, probably last night. It was, like, you know viewing the - - - DISHINGTON:
Q252 Last night was the last time?
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah, um, probably – oh, no, no, not sharing but just – just viewing the
– the older stuff that I’ve looked at. I haven’t really shared for a while. REGAN:
Q253 So when was the last time you shared? I don’t need specific - - -
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah, well, I - - -
Q254 I don’t need, you know, like the fifth of May or whatever.
AC. HEDDITCH: Yeah, I – I can’t really – it’s, um, mainly been, um, like, um, viewing mainly of what I’ve got.
DISHINGTON:
Q255 Okay. I thought you said – the date, was it one month ago, three months ago, six months ago, timeframe – do you know what I mean? Like, was it – think back and go, “Was it a week ago?” How long ago do you think it was? Don’t need an exact date, just a rough - - -
A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q256 - - - one month ago, et cetera.
AC. HEDDITCH: Maybe – I'd say maybe a month ago, maybe, to be honest, offhand I can’t – I can’t recall the actual - - -
REGAN:
Q257 And you said you’ve been on there for a year. When do you reckon the first time you would have done that would have been?
AC. HEDDITCH: Um, it’s – what’s the date now? It’s probably – it’s probably about a year or so ago, so probably – probably, um, within, um, a month – two months after that, three months after, ah, I started going on the website.
Q258 So in relation to – you said the images are on your phone - - - A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
Q259 - - - what devices do you use to look at ChatStep?
AC. HEDDITCH: Um, it’s mainly the, um – ah, just a browser on – on the – on the mobile phone.
Q260 Okay. So when you say “mainly” does that mean it’s the only thing or – and when - - - A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah, I’ve used the – that PC before, but, um - - -
DISHINGTON:
Q260 You’ve used the main PC? A C. HEDDITCH: Yeah.
0
3
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