Director of Public Prosecutions v Finlay (a pseudonym)
[2018] VCC 133
•16 February 2018
| IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA | Revised Not Restricted Suitable for Publication |
AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION
| DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS |
| v |
| HARRY FINLAY (a pseudonym) |
---
| JUDGE: | HIS HONOUR JUDGE HIGHAM |
| WHERE HELD: | Melbourne |
| DATE OF HEARING: | |
| DATE OF SENTENCE: | 16 February 2018 |
| CASE MAY BE CITED AS: | DPP v Finlay (a pseudonym) |
| MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION: | [2018] VCC 133 |
REASONS FOR SENTENCE
---Subject:
Catchwords:
Legislation Cited:
Cases Cited:
Sentence:---
APPEARANCES: | Counsel | Solicitors |
| For the Director of Public Prosecutions | Mr D. Glynn | Office of Public Prosecutions |
| For the Accused | Mr J. Taaffe | Doogue & George Defence Lawyers |
HIS HONOUR:
1Harry Finlay,[1] you have pleaded guilty to four charges of indecent assault upon a male person. The maximum penalty applicable to each offence is five years' imprisonment.
[1] “Harry Finlay” is a pseudonym.
2The offending to which you have pleaded guilty spans a nine year period from 1 January 1972 to 31 December 1980. At the time of the offending you were aged between 31 and 40. You qualified as a butcher at the age of 18. In 1972 you operated a butcher shop in Melbourne’s east. Your primary residence was close to the butcher shop, and you had a holiday house in a rural area north of Melbourne. There are four victims to your offending, AB, CD, EF and GH. Your victims either worked for you on a casual basis at your shop or else were befriended by you.
3Charge 1 related to the victim AB. AB was born in 1960 and grew up in Melbourne’s east in a large family where money was scarce and the father of the home was a violent man whose violence was apparently fuelled by alcohol. AB's mother was a customer of yours and enquired as to whether you had any work for her son. You took on AB as a "wash up boy" and he started to work for you after school and on Saturday mornings. You were a good boss to AB, friendly and seemingly interested in him with the result that AB began to view you as something of a father figure. You bought him food and drink, paid for haircuts, shoes and on one occasion contributed to the purchase of a pushbike for him. The family came to rely upon AB's earnings as part of the family budget.
4Charge 1 is a between dates course of conduct charge encompassing your offending against AB from 1 January 1972 to 31 December 1973 consisting in your masturbating AB, having him masturbate you and further having him perform oral sex upon you. The offending occurred both at your butcher shop and at your holiday house. The acts occurred on a regular basis over the charge period and your victim was aged between the ages of 12 and 13.
5The offending began only a few weeks after AB had begun to work for you when you asked him to place his hand in your pocket to get his pay. When AB put his hand into your pocket he felt your erect penis. A week or so later when the shop was closed and you and AB were alone, you grabbed his penis. You then took your erect penis out of your pants and placed AB's hand upon it telling AB to masturbate you. You then masturbated each other until you both ejaculated. This mutual masturbation became a regular event whenever the shop was closed and there was opportunity.
6On one such occasion you grabbed the victim's head and guided it onto your penis telling AB to "suck it". You compelled AB to suck your penis until you climaxed, ejaculating into AB's mouth. There was another occasion where you instructed AB to fellate you but on this occasion AB was able to remove his mouth before you ejaculated.
7You began to invite AB to accompany you to your holiday house on weekends. He readily agreed. Sometimes your wife and other guests were present and at other times there was just you and AB. On those occasions when you two were alone, you would give him beer and wine. On one occasion you gave AB alcohol and then masturbated him on a couch near the fireplace. You asked AB to masturbate you in return.
8Thereafter AB would regularly go with you to your holiday house. AB enjoyed the visits as he was allowed by you to shoot firearms on the property where there was a firing range and also to drink alcohol. There was regular sexual offending of the same type as that which occurred in the butcher shop, that is to say, mutual masturbation and the performance of oral sex on you by your victim.
9Charge 2 relates to CD. It is a between dates course of conduct charge covering your offending against CD during the year 1976. CD was born in August 1963 and thus in 1976 was aged 12 to 13. CD's parents ran the local hotel, which is where you began your friendship with the family. In due course you invited CD to your holiday house for the day where you allowed him to shoot a range of different firearms on the firing range and also to drink beer.
10CD having manifestly enjoyed the visit, you invited him again. His parents, now knowing and trusting you, readily gave their permission. Your first offending against CD occurred when, having ridden his horse to your property, he found that you and he were the only persons present. You offered him beer and again allowed him to shoot on the firing range. You then took him inside your home. You sat on a couch, took out your erect penis and masturbated yourself. You then took CD's hand and placed it around your penis using his hand to continue masturbating. You then told CD to "suck and kiss my cock" which he did for a couple of minutes.
11Not surprisingly CD was conflicted. He did not like what had happened to him but did like visiting your property and in particular the shooting range. Thus despite his misgivings he continued to visit. Over the next few weeks you directed him to masturbate you and to give you oral sex.
12In March or April 1976 you demonstrated to CD what you wanted him to do by sucking upon CD's penis, stopping all the while to discuss the technique that you wished him to employ upon yourself. CD then performed oral sex on you. This mutual oral sex occurred on at least another ten occasions during the course of that year. On one occasion when you had other visitors and CD was present, you removed CD from the company and told him to suck your penis. After this event CD was visibly upset and told one of your guests what had occurred. This guest took CD home but unfortunately did not report the matter despite the fact that her husband at the time was a serving police officer.
13Charge 3 relates to EF. EF was born on in January 1966 and was the younger brother of AB. In 1977 when he was 11 years' old, you offered him a job as wash up boy at your butcher shop and he accepted. When he was at your shop you would play jokes upon him. These jokes consisted in you touching his genitals over his pants or in you exposing your genitals to him.
14At some point during 1977 when EF was aged 11, you invited him to your holiday house. Knowing that his older brother, AB, went there and knowing that there was a shooting range at the property, he readily agreed to go. Upon arrival he realised that no-one else was present. During the course of dinner that evening you gave the 11 year old EF wine to drink. Not surprisingly he began to feel groggy and sleepy.
15You then said it was bedtime and indicated that EF was to sleep in the same double bed as you. EF got into the bed with his underpants and T-shirt on and lay facing away from you. You then got into the same bed and lay close to him, placed your hands upon EF's underpants and fondled his penis. EF froze and lay motionless for an unknown amount of time. Eventually he got up and ran to the toilet, remaining there for a considerable period before returning to the bed. In the morning nothing was said by you or by EF about what had occurred and you drove EF back home. EF continued to work for you however you never tried to assault him again.
16Charge 4 relates to GH. GH was born in March 1966 and attended the same school at EF where the two became firm friends. In 1980 when GH was 14 you gave him a job as a wash boy at your shop. After a couple of weeks you began to ask him intrusive questions such as whether or not he masturbated. When GH said that he did not you implied that he must be either lying or "a poofter". The next time you asked him GH said that he did, which admission by him apparently made you happy.
17Thereafter you began to expose yourself having your penis hanging out of your trousers in the back room when GH was working. On one occasion you asked GH to reach into your front pocket to get some money causing him to feel your erect penis. On another occasion you offered GH a lift home and in the course of the journey started to rub the victim's penis over his jeans asking him whether he liked it. GH told you no and that you had better stop, and on this occasion you did stop.
18However you did the same thing on another six times over the next 12 months, on each occasion becoming more insistent and aggressive in asking GH as to how he would know that he would not like it. On the last occasion, GH was in your new car driving back to your shop and you touched his crotch, causing GH to push your hand away. Arriving back at your shop, you parked your vehicle and then leaned over and with one hand grabbed GH's penis over his pants while trying to force your other hand down his pants under his jeans. You were very forceful and GH had to use a lot of his strength to stop the assault. That was the last occasion upon which you did anything of a sexual nature to GH and this assault is the subject matter of the charge, Charge 4. However, Charge 4 is a representative count and the six earlier occasions of sexual assault constitute the conduct of which the charge is representative.
19CD reported these matters to the police in 2016. In September 2016 you were interviewed and denied all of the allegations made by him. EF then reported your offending and you were interviewed in November 2016. In that interview you admitted horseplay but otherwise denied the allegations. AB then came forward and you were interviewed in relation to his allegations in February 2017 where you exercised, as you were entitled to do, your right to silence. Lastly GH made a statement and you declined to be interviewed in relation to those allegations, again as was your right.
20You were charged and these matters were listed for a committal in September 2017. Shortly prior to the committal the matter resolved and you entered guilty pleas to the indictment charges on 5 September 2017 without any evidence being called. Thus the complainants were spared having to give evidence of your offending in a court setting, a matter for which I give you full credit.
21AB and EF provided victim impact statements which were tendered on the plea. AB wrote of having over the years blocked out memories of your abuse of him. He spoke of memories then coming flooding back “like no tomorrow, one after the other". This prompted a period of disbelief on his part, suicidal ideation and of how his final recognition of what had been done to him by you had helped him come to terms with his behaviour over the past 40-odd years. That behaviour included failed relationship, alcohol, drug and gambling abuse. He states, "I know I will never have an answer for why Harry did this to me.
It has caused me long term stress, anxiety, depression, voices in my head, nerves and uncontrollable thoughts keep me awake at night, every night".22EF wrote of life-long emotions of shame, guilt, depression, anxiety, low self-esteem and feelings of inferiority and panic attacks. Again he describes alcohol and drug abuse, self-harm and some very poor life choices. He said, "I feel I lost my innocence along with my teenage years. It also affected my understanding of sexual behaviour. I believe my path in life was changed by this crime and I often wonder how my life would have been had this crime not had happened to me".
23GH did not provide a victim impact statement.
24CD, with the agreement of learned counsel, delivered an oral statement wherein he spoke of a lifetime of anger, of lost opportunities, of driving those who loved him away. He described a horror movie in his mind and an emotional state where there is "nothing inside me but anger and regret like an IUD (sic) ready to go bang. I have nothing inside me. No feeling. I have never felt love and I want to feel what that is like and not feel so fucked up".
25There can be no doubt, Mr Finlay, that your offending has had a devastating and lifelong impact upon your victims.
26I turn now to your personal circumstances. You were born in May 1940 and are thus now 77 years of age, and you were between the ages of 31 and 40 at the time of this offending. You grew up in Melbourne and were an only child.
It seems you were a shy child and were subject to constant bullying in your school years. Academically you struggled and left school after completing Grade 6 at age 14 and then you commenced an apprenticeship as a butcher.27At age 10, when learning to swim, an unknown man pressed himself against you when in the shower at the swimming baths. At age 11, when you were attending a local swimming club, a masseur appeared to take particular interest in you and in the course of massage would fondle your genitals. You believed that you were being treated as "special".
28When you were 14 and had commenced your apprenticeship you were introduced to the uncle of a friend who would regularly take you and your friend to the local drive-in movie house. One night after having dropped off your friend this "uncle" began to fondle your penis and then took you back to his shop where you masturbated him and he masturbated you. This behaviour continued for a period of months and included not only mutual masturbation but the older man performing fellatio upon you. You were conflicted in relation to this experience. You physically enjoyed the act, believed it was wrong and yet you blamed yourself. You ended the contact with your abuser.
29At age 18, you did your national service. You had sex for the first time with a woman and began drinking. At age 26, you married your stepsister and bought your own home. You had a happy marriage but no children. Your father died in 1973 and in the following year you purchased the butcher shop where much of this offending took place.
30During the 1970's, coincident with this offending you were drinking to excess and, from what I was told on the plea, were exhibiting all the signs of being dependent upon alcohol. In 1980 you were diagnosed with hypertension and were able to reduce your alcohol consumption with the result that your blood pressure returned to normal range. Three years later in 1983 your mother remarried. I am told you had a good relationship with all of your step-siblings in the blended family.
31In 1984 you obtained a gun dealer's licence and licence as an armorer.
You then set up a company with a business partner providing firearms for use in film and television production. Your company was successful and clearly this success enabled you to further reduce your alcohol consumption. In 1987 you sold your butcher shop and worked in your new field fulltime.32You and your wife divorced when you were in your 50's but I am told the split was amicable and that you still remain good friends. Since that time you have had no serious relationships and have been single for the last ten years. In your mid-60's you were again diagnosed with hypertension and with an enlarged prostate. In 2005 your mother died.
33As a result of your being charged with these matters you are no longer allowed to possess or to work with firearms. In consequence your business has been compelled to cease operations and your company will dissolve in the next 12 months. You formally retired at the age of 75. I am told that your prostate symptoms have increased, requiring medication and further investigation and specialist input. Any surgical intervention has been awaiting the outcome of these legal proceedings.
34I was provided with ten references, Exhibit 9JB, on your behalf from fellow gun enthusiasts, lifelong friends and colleagues. I have read them all. All speak highly of you, of your decency, your caring nature, your trustworthiness and your generosity. I accept these qualities as attributes of the person that you have become.
35On the plea there was tendered as Exhibit 5 psychological risk assessment report prepared by Dr Rachel MacKenzie, who is a clinical psychologist. In your interview with Dr MacKenzie, you told her that you had no memory of this offending but that "it must have happened as they wouldn't lie". You also disputed some of the details in the Victim Impact Statements and observed that "whilst you did not think that the victims were lying, their memories might be poor or there has been some exaggeration".
36When asked by Dr MacKenzie as to why you thought the abuse had occurred and why you had no memory for these events you stated that you were drinking heavily during this period or alternatively you were “a very sick person at the time. Maybe I never grew up. I was pretty immature".
37Your absence of recall, Mr Finlay, did not assist Dr MacKenzie in her task of identifying the drivers for your offending and led her, in consequence, to advance hypotheses for it, including positing a connection between your own abuse and your offending, or a distorted notion as to the absence of harm your offending would cause to the victims, and alternatively your place on a continuum of child molesters from the fixated to the regressed.
38Dr MacKenzie stated that “on the basis of the information available”, it would appear that you stopped offending when you commenced a new career and reduced your alcohol consumption. Dr MacKenzie administered the recognised actuarial models as part of her formal risk assessment process. Dr MacKenzie's conclusion was that:
"In looking at the likelihood of Mr. Finlay reoffending, the results of the Static-99 and the RSVP, as well as consideration of further empirically-supported risk factors, indicate that he poses a low risk of sexual recidivism. He currently has few of the risk markers associated with sexual recidivism. He has not re-offended in over three decades and, at the age of 77, has various age-related conditions which have impaired his sexual functioning and desire. Whilst he has stated that he has no memory of any of his offending behaviour, he has accepted that the events occurred and expressed considerable remorse".
39I accept that opinion, Mr Finlay, and find accordingly your risk of re-offending is slight indeed and I am confident that you will not be in front of these courts again. Your absence of recall and Dr MacKenzie's consequent inability to formulate your offending would, in my view, have had significance if you had been of younger years. However, in light of your age and of my finding that you are a low risk of re-offending, there is no need to conjecture as to why you cannot recall these events. As to why you committed them insofar as it is relevant, it is clear, in my view, that you derived sexual satisfaction from the acts, howsoever that desire in you had been constructed.
40I turn now to submissions of counsel on the plea. Mr Glynn for the prosecution submitted that your offending constituted most serious examples of serious offences.
41He pointed to the fact of four victims, and that your offending took place over a period of nine years. He submitted that pervading all of these offences was an abuse of power and breach of trust, having regard to your position of quasi-employer of three of your four victims, and trusted family friend of the fourth. This was relevant to my assessment of the seriousness of the conduct. There was a course of planned and premeditated seduction in relation to each of your victims and thus your offending could not be characterised as spontaneous. With three of your victims, alcohol was supplied either as part of seduction or to wear down their resistance to your sexual predations, my words, not Mr Glynn's.
42Mr Glynn submitted that the totality of the offending encompassed by the course of conduct charges constituted worst examples of such offending. Charge 3 was of itself a serious example of the offence, when an 11 year old victim had been plied with alcohol, was alone and isolated at your home and in short at your mercy. Charge 4 was a forceful act when earlier more persuasive and seductive attempts had failed.
43In discussion Mr Glynn conceded that there was little relevance to my sentencing discretion in your reported inability to recall the offending. He urged upon me the weight to be given to the principles of general deterrence and denunciation for sentencing considerations in your case. He called for a significant degree of cumulation in light of the period over which your offending took place and the successive victims, subject of course to the principle of totality. He reminded me of your potential status of as a serious sexual offender but did not call for disproportionate sentence.
44On the plea your counsel, Mr Papas QC, recognised the primary sentencing considerations of general deterrence and denunciation in offending of this kind and realistically conceded that your offending, particularly within the wider context of repeated behaviour and with multiple complainants, constituted serious offending.
45He acknowledged that Charges 1 and 2 represented offending far more serious than the offending reflected in Charges 3 and 4. Mr Papas accepted that your offending could only be met by a term of imprisonment, however he submitted that the term of imprisonment be such as to allow it to be wholly suspended.
I say here that is a submission I reject.46In support of his submissions, Mr Papas QC relied upon: your absence of prior and subsequent convictions; that the charges represented a prolonged but ultimately confined period of offending, and that after 1980 you not only ceased offending but turned your life around including a dramatic reduction in your alcohol use; the assessment by Dr MacKenzie as you being of a low risk of re-offending; your plea of guilty and the remorse for your offending that you expressed to Dr MacKenzie.
47He urged upon me the delay of nearly 40 years between your offending and its disclosure and prosecution. In this regard, Mr Papas QC sensibly recognised that with offending against children, it is commonplace for there to be many years between the offending and its disclosure and as such, delay of itself cannot be mitigatory. But Mr Papas QC submitted, however, that it goes directly to the question of specific deterrence and to a likelihood of re-offending.
48I accept, as already stated, that specific deterrence need play no part in my sentencing discretion. Your rehabilitation is proven, not prospective. You will not re-offend. However I make this observation; just as delay enables you to have shown the court and the world how you have rehabilitated yourself, the same passage of time enables the court to gain a greater insight and understanding of the lifelong effect and impact of your offending upon your victims.
49Mr Papas QC also submitted that in view of your age and your health, prison would be more burdensome for you than a younger man in good health. I was provided, Exhibit 8JB, with a report from your GP. I note that the ailments therein disclosed are commonly found in men of your age and are not yet to such a degree that would automatically, in my view, make prison more burdensome for you. There will, however, be a needs to monitor any deterioration of your health in prison and accordingly I give such weight as I can to this submission.
50Lastly, Mr Papas QC urged upon me your loss of firearm qualification, your enforced retirement from your business and the consequence of your loss of income.
51Mr Finlay, all four charges reflect, in my view, serious offending. Charges 1 and 2 are grave examples indeed of such offending. You were much older than your victims. You exploited your position as both a quasi-employer and a family friend to gain the confidence and friendship of your victims. You provided them with money and/or the opportunities to indulge in activities that were beyond that which their families could provide. You allowed them to drink alcohol, either to win their trust or lower their resistance. They, and for some, their parents placed their trust in you; it was a trust that you grossly abused over a period of years.
52Your offending was not spontaneous or opportunistic. You embarked upon a course of seduction in a most predatory fashion upon boys who were at a most impressionable stage of their emotional and sexual development. At all times, and notwithstanding their developed sexual organs and capacity, they were children and as children they demanded your protection. But you instead of protecting them, you betrayed them.
53I do not hypothesise as to whether you believed that their experience of your abuse was, or was not, harmful to them. In my view any belief on your part in the absence of harm was not a permitting circumstance. You acted as you did quite simply because you wanted to, driven by a desire for you own sexual satisfaction and at times, if your seduction techniques were not effective, you were prepared to be persistent, insistent and quite forceful. In my view, your moral culpability in this offending is high.
54In sentencing you on Charges 1 and 2 I must have regard to the totality of the offending that constitutes the course of conduct that is charged. That is to say, I must have regard to the nature and circumstances of the act committed by you and the period over which they occurred. In sentencing you on Charge 4,
I have regard to the conduct of which the charged act is said to be representative.55AB and CD were abused by you over a prolonged and protracted period with multiple incident of invasive and penetrative sexual acts, all of which were directed and orchestrated by you. You slowly introduced your victims to sexualised conduct. You took great care and effort to secure their acquiescence in that which you intended. Once you had begun their abuse, their own physical manifestation of enjoyment made them complicit in your deviant sexual gratification and the awareness of that no doubt contributed to their confused and conflicted state.
56EF was lured by you to your bed. You had plied him with alcohol, no doubt hoping that an intoxicated 11 year old boy would be less likely to resist. He was alone in a strange house away from home, but fortunately had the strength and the will to resist.
57GH was subjected to your insistent importuning over a period of time before you decide to forcibly attempt to have your way with him.
58Mr Finlay, in sentencing you I must have regard to a range of different factors. I must give effect to the principle of general deterrence, that is, to deter others from behaving as you did, and I must express the community's denunciation of your conduct even though your offending occurred many years ago. I find no need for me to deter you from repeating such behaviour nor do I find the need to protect the community from you.
59I have taken into account the effect of your crimes upon your victim. I must have regard to current sentencing practices tempered by sentencing practices extent at the time of your offending insofar as they can be established. I must have regard to the statutory maximum penalties for the offences to which you have pleaded guilty. In short, I must try to balance your personal circumstances with the circumstances of your offending.
60Clearly principles of general deterrence and denunciation are the primary sentencing considerations in this case. I give full effect to all of the mitigatory factors to which I have been referred, and for the avoidance of doubt I have regard to:
·Your plea of guilty. To your plea attaches not only the utilitarian benefit of saving the time and expense of a trial but also a recognition that by your plea your victims did not have to give evidence in a court setting of that which you had done to them;
·The remorse that you express to Dr MacKenzie, to your low risk of re-offending, to your proved rehabilitation as demonstrated by the life that you have lived over the last nearly four decades;
·Your age and the attendant medical conditions of which are becoming increasingly symptomatic;
·The loss of your business and enforced retirement; and
·The principle of totality.
61Nevertheless, the Court of Appeal of this State has made clear time and again that offending against children, even from many years ago, can only be met by substantial and significant terms of imprisonment.
62If you stand up please, Mr Finlay. You are sentenced as follows.
63On Charge 1, indecent assault on a male, I sentence you to four years' imprisonment. On Charge 2, indecent assault on a male, I sentence you to four years' imprisonment. On Charge 3, indecent assault on a male, I sentence you to two years' imprisonment. Charge 4, indecent assault on a male I sentence you to 15 months' imprisonment.
64I order that two years of the sentence on Charge 2, 12 months of the sentence on Charge 3 and nine months of the sentence on Charge 4 should run cumulative to each other and cumulative to the sentence imposed upon Count 1. This makes a total effective sentence of seven years and nine months' important. I fix a non-parole period of four years and nine months' imprisonment.
65Pursuant to s.6AAA of the Sentencing Act 1991, had you not pleaded guilty, you would have been sentenced to a term of imprisonment of ten years and I would have fixed a non-parole period of seven years and three months.
66I note, as I must, that on Charge 3 and 4 you are sentenced as a serious sexual offender pursuant to s.6 of the Sentencing Act 1991 and pursuant of the 1991 Act, I direct that this be entered into the records of the Court.
67Mr Glynn, am I right that the mandatory requirement period is for life?
68Mr GLYNN: Yes, Your Honour.
69HIS HONOUR: Yes. Pursuant to s.34 of the Sex Offender's Registration Act 2004 you are now a registrable offender for the remainder of your life. You must comply with the reporting obligations and under Part 3 of the Sex Offender's Registration Act for the rest of your life. Mr Glynn, I have not checked the statute this morning. This is a Class 2 offending?
70Mr GLYNN: Yes.
71HIS HONOUR: I heard, thank you, Class 2 offending.
72Mr GLYNN: Yes, that's right.
73HIS HONOUR: Now there was a forensic order sought and I will sign it.
74Mr GLYNN: Yes, Your Honour, I'll provide the form, Your Honour. Sorry we didn't provide it last time.
75HIS HONOUR: Now I need to deal with some custody management issues. So, Mr Finlay, some documents are being signed which show that you have been - that you have received the relevant documentation under the Sex Offender's Registration Act. I am sure your counsel has explained that matter to you. That is not a decision of mine, I am really just a gatekeeper there. It is a decision of parliament, there is no discretion on my part, can I make it clear.
76I have made an order to the effect that investigatory authorities, the police, are entitled to take a forensic sample for you and that is done by a buccal swab. An officer will come to you in due course to take the buccal swab. I am sure there will be no issue around that, but I am directed by parliament to tell you that if you should resist the taking of the swab, then the officer is entitled to use such force as is reasonably necessary and no more, I stress reasonably necessary, to do so. But I am sure in that regard, there will be no issue. I will hand that back down. Mr Taaffe, if you want to go with Mr Finlay.
77Mr TAAFFE: Yes, Your Honour.
78HIS HONOUR: Thank you for that, Mr Taaffe. Now in terms of custody management issues, Mr Taaffe, what I propose to do, if I have you and your client leave, is to send a copy of Dr Martin's report.
79Mr TAAFFE: Yes, we'd be grateful, Your Honour.
80HIS HONOUR: To send that to Corrections.
81Mr TAAFFE: Yes.
82HIS HONOUR: Do you need to get ‑ ‑ ‑
83Mr TAAFFE: No, no.
84HIS HONOUR: You give me permission to do that?
85Mr TAAFFE: We've discussed that.
86HIS HONOUR: Are there any other matters that arise?
87Mr GLYNN: No, Your Honour.
88HIS HONOUR: Mr Taaffe?
89Mr TAAFFE: No, Your Honour.
90HIS HONOUR: Thank you, officer, you may take Mr Finlay down. Thank you, Mr Glynn and Mr Taaffe.
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