Director of Public Prosecutions v Cooke

[2015] VCC 382

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised
Not Restricted
Suitable for Publication

AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION

CR 14-014024

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

SHANNON COOKE
CONSTANTINE LIKIARDOPOULOS

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JUDGE:	HER HONOUR JUDGE GAYNOR
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:
DATE OF SENTENCE:	26 March 2015
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Cooke
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2015] VCC 382

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:
Catchwords:
Legislation Cited:
Cases Cited:
Sentence:

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APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions	Mr J. S. Livitsanos
For Accused Cooke	Ms C. Dwyer-Cooke
For Accused Likiardopoulos	Ms J. Swiney

HER HONOUR: 

1Constantine Likiardopoulos and Shannon Phillip Cooke, you have each pleaded guilty to one charge of recklessly engage in conduct endangering a person and you, Mr Likiardopoulos, have also pleaded guilty to one charge of possession of drugs of dependence, namely amphetamine and ecstasy. 

2

The facts underlining your offending are as follows: On 1 November 2013, one Nathan Demesch, who was aged 17, died due to a drug overdose.  He was a cousin to you, Mr Cooke, and a cousin to the victim in this matter, Daniel Scicluna.  As a result of Mr Demesch's death, his family blamed members of the (Indistinct) family and specifically Daniel Scicluna.  It was alleged that

Paul Scicluna, Daniel Scicluna's uncle, had supplied Nathan Demesch with drugs.  There was a great deal of tension between the families, which was played out in SMS exchanges in which you, Mr Cooke, took part.  There was an exchange between you, Mr Cooke, and Daniel Scicluna over several hours, late on 3 November 2013. 

3At about 1.00 am on 4 November 2013 you, Mr Cooke, travelled as a passenger in a car driven by you, Mr Likiardopoulos.  The car drove down Meadow Heights Drive in Meadow Heights.  Daniel Scicluna was at that time sitting in his car on the nature strip outside 71 Meadow Heights Drive.  You, Mr Likiardopoulos, brought your car to a stop next to Mr Scicluna's car, putting you, Mr Cooke, nearest to him.  Words were exchanged between the three of you and Mr Scicluna heard something say "You're going to get popped cunt". 

4It has never been established who did this but one of the two of you produced a .22 handgun and fired a single shot towards Scicluna.  It is not part of the prosecution case that the gun was aimed at Mr Scicluna's head.  It is not known who provided the handgun, which has never been recovered.  The bullet penetrated some plastic sheeting being used as a temporary repair to cover the driver's side window, that window having on another occasion been broken.  The bullet struck Scicluna on the forehead, travelling under the flesh and skin and exiting out the top of his head.  The car containing the two of you then drove away.

5Scicluna went into his family's house.  The alarm was raised and police and ambulance attended.  Mr Scicluna was taken to the Royal Melbourne Hospital, where he remained overnight, discharging himself on the following day.  It was late the following morning, 5 November.  Later that day he was admitted to the Alfred Hospital.  There it was discovered that whilst the bullet had not penetrated Mr Scicluna's skull, the impact had caused a small, subdural haematoma near the anterior, right frontal lobe.  A CT scan showed a hyper-dense shrapnel in the outer part of the frontal bone.  He required surgery to remove this and plastic surgery to remove damage in burnt flesh from the exit and entry wounds.  It was believed by doctors that he would be left with a five centimetre scar on his forehead.

6

On 4 November 2013, police executed a search warrant at your home, Mr Cooke, but no handgun was located.  You were arrested on 6 November 2013 and in an interview with police, exercised your right to silence and gave no comment responses.  At committal, through your legal representative, you accepted that you were aware that the handgun was in the car when you and

Mr Likiardopoulos set off to Meadow Heights, and that the gun was to be used to shoot at Scicluna.  You, Mr Likiardopoulos, were arrested on 7 November 2013. 

7You admitted to police being in the car when the shot was fired but claimed not to have fired it, and at interview made a written statement where you asserted you knew nothing of the presence of the gun until it was produced and fired.  You said you were not party to any agreement to go to Meadow Heights to shoot Scicluna.  A search of your home conducted by police revealed small quantities of amphetamine and ecstasy in zip lock bags, in a locked safe in your bedroom. 

8The matter was listed as a committal for 26 May 2014 and the matter against both of you was resolved on that day.  An application for a summary hearing was opposed by the prosecution and then abandoned by you.       The maximum penalties are, firstly for reckless conduct endangering serious injury, five years' imprisonment, and for possessing a drug of dependence for personal use, a penalty of not more than 30 units or one year imprisonment.  I now turn to your personal circumstances, beginning with you, Mr Likiardopoulos.

9You are 25 and are the youngest of three sons born to your parents, who separated when you were young.  Both your parents remarried and had further children.  You have an older brother, Frank, who has an intellectual disability and a brother John, who is currently in custody.  You grew up in the Preston area and it would appear that your family life was marked by drug use and criminal behaviour.  You told psychologist, Michael Daffin, whose report was ordered on the plea and then tendered, that both you and your brothers essentially ran amok in your childhood, and it seems a problem for you is that you basically have grown up in a fairly anti-social environment, if I could put it that way.

10You left school halfway through Year 10.  You told Mr Daffin that basically on leaving school you were fairly lazy and used drugs with your friends.  You worked briefly as a glazier and in a factory.  Along the way, at some stage you left your mother's home in the Preston area and went to live with your father, who was then living in South Australia.  You then returned back to Melbourne again. 

11You have long-term drug problems.  You began using cannabis when you were aged 14, and in particular, you have had a dependence on amphetamines, specifically methamphetamine, or ice, since you were about 17.  When you were 17 you were involved in a very serious offending, which was primarily carried out by your father, who is currently undergoing a 20 year sentence for murder.  He was living in what was described to me by your counsel as a party house in Noble Park, where drugs and alcohol were consumed. 

12It was thought that a person at the house had committed a theft.  He was a young, intellectually disabled man and was brought back and essentially tortured for two days before being killed.  Your role in all of this was you were ordered to the house by your father to assist with cleaning up.  You brought some methylated spirits along and you were ordered by your father to assist in disposing of the body.  Ultimately you were dealt with on a charge of being accessory to the fact after manslaughter and were sentenced to 18 months in a Youth Justice Centre. 

13You have actually a fairly limited criminal history which is somewhat remarkable, given the environment that you grew up in.  It appears that both of you grew up in an environment where particularly the men in your life, the various families you mixed in, were generally engaged in crime.  Your older brother, John, was also charged and sentenced in relation to that murder. 

14On your release you returned home to live with your mother, for whom you have essentially been a carer since about 2009.  You were sentenced for your role in the murder as an accessory in 2008.  You were formerly working as a carer.  I received a letter from her doctor noting that she suffers from deep depression, some panic attacks and paranoid schizophrenia.  You were receiving a pension of $380 a week.  In 2011 you were dealt with for possessing a prohibited weapon, which is a Taser gun, for which you were placed on a two month Intensive Corrections Order. 

15Also in that year, you were dealt with for affray which occurred in the context of a fight over the deterioration on the ending of a friend's relationship and were placed on a 12 month Intensive Corrections Order.  You were released on bail after being charged with these offences and went home to live with your mother.  She wrote a letter saying that you had very much changed as a result of the offending that you had been charged with.  She said that you were invaluable to her and she spoke of the great care that you extended towards her.  And indeed, in relation to both of you, both of you who have been carers in a significant sense to your mothers, lies what would be regarded as the most hopeful aspect of your personalities.

16In 2014, however, you breached a curfew which related to your bail conditions and were found in a car with a friend, in which a knife and knuckle dusters were located.  You served one month in gaol.  On your release you simply went home and continued doing what you were doing.  However, you have undertaken some employment, helping in a restaurant.  You have been in a nine year relationship with your fiancée.  Your counsel described to me your drug use, essentially as not being terribly serious and being something that you dabbled in but after having had regard to the report of Mr Daffin, it is my view that your drug use has been fairly entrenched and is something you have more than dabbled in over the years. 

17I now turn to you, Mr Cooke.  You are 22-years-old and at the time of this offending were 21.  You grew up with your mother but had little contact with your father, who left soon after you were born.  He made no contact with you until you were in your early teens.  You were fairly keen to have a relationship with him but soon after he was murdered in a dispute over another woman.  He was, in fact, stabbed to death.  This was an extremely important and damaging event in your life.  It would seem up to then, even though you had grown up in the same area as Mr Likiardopoulos, the two of you have been described to me as being like brothers. 

18You had not been in much trouble and did fairly well at school but following this event, you became traumatised and angry, you began getting into trouble at school, you were asked to leave one school at the end of Year 9 and attended two schools in Year 10 but were expelled from both.  Mr Likiardopoulos' father was like a father figure to you.  You have had an amount of trauma in your life, additional to that.  Your mother has had several violent partners as you grew up.  You've always enjoyed a good relationship with her but it is quite clear that you have witnessed a great deal of violence in your own home as a result of the partnerships that she formed.

19You and your co accused grew up in the same area.  – you are extremely close and were described to me as being like brothers. You also regarded Mr Likiardopoulos as a father figure.

20Ultimately, your mother developed a depressive disorder which has plagued her on and off for years, and I noted in a report, the psychological report from Dr Michelle Vale, that you on occasion had to play a parenting role, both towards her and your younger brother.  It would appear from time to time you would take over domestic duties when your mother was debilitated and looked after your younger brother.  You have been in a relationship for the past four years and have been engaged to be married for the last two years.             You began using a number of drugs at the age of about 15, essentially ice, amphetamine and cannabis, as well as abusing alcohol.  You had continued with heavy use of those for a number of years.  You have a serious prior criminal history.  In 2008 you were sentenced to be detained in a Youth Justice Centre for two years on eight charges of armed robbery and three charges of intentionally causing serious injury.  Whilst there you were dealt with for further armed robberies that you committed in that time.  Those armed robberies were described to me essentially as street armed robberies involving an amount of violence, leading to the charges of causing serious injury.

21You were released from a Youth Justice Centre but went on to offend further.  On 25 March 2011, you were dealt with for robbery and recklessly causing serious injury and false imprisonment.  The prosecutor read a description of that incident from the LEAP report, which involved you holding up someone in the street and pushing them down and punching them whilst you robbed them.  In 2012 you were fined for recklessly causing injury and you were fined in June of 2013 for possess and use of amphetamine. 

22It is clear from your offending history, Mr Cooke, that whilst you did offend very seriously in your mid-teens, the rate of offending, and the seriousness of the offending, was tapering away until you were picked up for the charges that have brought you here before this court.  You were refused bail and entered adult prison for the first time in your life.  Your mother wrote a reference which I regarded as particularly helpful.  She actually conceded that gaol had been good for you, and indeed, that seems to have been the case. 

23You have undertaken a number of courses that are available at the MRC.  You also undertook a drug and alcohol course.  Your mother wrote in her reference that since your release you were essentially a changed boy, or young man.  You had stopped going out as much.  To her mind she could not see that you were using drugs and you wrote a letter to the court.  Ordinarily it's always a worry when you receive something written from an accused person.  Usually they are full of excuses and blame everybody else in relation to their offending in their life. 

24I thought that the letter that you wrote was extremely helpful to you.  Primarily it seems to me, from your letter, your time in gaol has led you to have a really long think about your life and where it was going.  You talked about the murder of your father, how he'd never been around during your childhood, that he tried to regain contact with you about six months before he died.  You said you were feeling angry and confused that he had never been there for you and you rejected his attempt, and then when you were told he had been murdered, you said "My anger moved to a hatred of myself" and it caused you to stop caring about anything much. 

25You said you started drinking, skipping school and not returning home for days on end, stating that your mother had no control of you.  You said it was at this point that Mr Likiardopoulos' father stood in and helped you, encouraging you to keep up with school and start playing football again.  Then early one morning in 2007, "Mum screamed, waking me up so I could see the news on the TV.  Dad" - that is, Mr Likiardopoulos, "And my brother, John (Likiardopoulos), had been arrested for murder.  I couldn't believe it". 

26You said this caused you to develop mixed feelings of anger, sadness and extreme loss.  You started taking drugs and mixing with the wrong crowd.  You said you developed a lot of hate and anger and confusion, lost direction and you were generally very angry.  You said "When this current matter took place before the courts at present I was still in the same frame of mind and I was reckless as to what had taken place".  You said that you spent a fair bit of time at the MRC with Mr Likiardopoulos and John, and "I then realised I didn't want to end up like that and started to address the anger and the confused issues and took a real hard look at things and do not want to end up like my dad and John in prison and it has been a wake-up call for me".

27You asked that I looked at what you described as your dysfunctional upbringing and how that had affected you and "Give me a chance in correcting my wrongdoing and give me an opportunity in being a normal human being".    Overall, in relation to each of you, it seems to me that you have grown up, as I said, in a very anti-social environment.  It is to your credit, Mr Likiardopoulos, that your offending history is not worse than it is.  Insofar as you were concerned, Mr Cooke, it seems to me that your offending history traces the traumas that occurred in your life and I do accept that the months that you spent in adult custody did effect you and have led to you making an internal change, in terms of how you want to live your life. 

28I was very concerned that neither of you would speak to the psychologist who came to see you about the effect of Mr Likiardopoulos' charge and sentencing for murder.  I am satisfied that for a while, Mr Likiardopoulos, you had suffered from some aspects of post-traumatic stress disorder but that you have effectively put those behind you.  I accept that you, Mr Cooke, were more affected by the domestic violence and the role of adult responsibility you had to undertake as a teenager than by that event, although I accept it was a very distressing episode for you. 

29

You are both, of course, young men with your whole lives ahead of you.  It seems to me both of you have taken these proceedings very seriously.  I asked you to speak to the psychologists again when I received the reports from them, and to talk about the effect that Mr Likiardopoulos Senior's murder charge had had upon you both.  It did not take things very much further but I was gratified to see that you took on board what I had said and realised that by talking to the psychologist about this, you were not "ratting" on

Mr Likiardopoulos Senior.

30It seems to me that both of you, for all the trauma of your lives, have been wonderful sons to your mothers.  Both of them have written very positively about this.  Both of your mothers have come to court on each occasion and this plea has had a fairly protracted course; we have been back several times.  Both of them are very reliant upon you.  Both of you, I think, have almost taken a father/husband role in relation to your mothers and both psychological reports said that of all the positives that they could find, your relationships with your mothers was the most.

31To your credit you have each managed to maintain stable and loving relationships with partners and both of you plan to marry.  It is not an easy thing to have your loyalty and love based in a group of people who are either dependent upon you, or are setting a poor example to you.  As I said, I find that both of you have basically grown up in close-knit family situations where drugs and crime have had a role to play.  And indeed, I find the offending that brought you here before this court was a direct result of this. 

32The courts are very aware that when you grow up in an environment like that, there is lots of loyalties, there are lots of rules.  There is a strict pecking order and Mr Likiardopoulos Senior had a very strong role in the lives of both of you.  The notion that the two of you would go out and undertake what you did in relation to the victim on that night, is very much in line with those notions of loyalty and looking after members of your family.  The fact that looking after members of your family might involve criminal behaviour seems not to come into the equation very much as a deterrent factor. 

33Both of you have endured a great deal of emotional trauma and violence and difficulties, and it is unsurprising that the two of you both engaged in drug use.  Unfortunately that drug use, in particular, involved using ice, which as both of you would know very well, interferes greatly with your mood.  It is a drug that takes you on a big high and can leave you in a big, black hole.  It leads to a very unstable way of living and it is not hard in those circumstances, particularly given the environment that each of you has grown up in, to turn to criminal behaviour without thinking of the consequences. 

34I am satisfied, as I have said however, that the consequences of this particular offending have been very much taken on board by both of you.  Both of you know, and indeed have shown a lot of concern about the fact, that at some level I have to deal with you by way of a sentence of imprisonment to be immediately served.  It was suggested by one of the psychologists, that is in relation to you, Mr Cooke, that a combination Community Corrections Order and sentence disposition would be appropriate.  And indeed, that was a course urged upon me in relation to you too, Mr Likiardopoulos. 

35To that end, I had you assessed for placement on a Community Corrections Order and each of you has been found suitable for placement on that order.  The question is, how long do I make the gaol component before you are released on the Community Corrections Order?  I am satisfied that each of you played an equal role in the offending that has brought you here before this court.  Both of you have been partially cooperative with police but not enough so that we know who brought the gun and who shot it. 

36Again, given the environment you grew up in, I think it is beyond reasonable expectation that either of you, given you regard yourselves also as brothers, is going to, if I can use the colloquial, "tip the other one in".  But at the end of the day, I am left with you each playing an equal role.  Crucial to my ultimate decision is the fact that the prosecution are not alleging that you aimed the gun at the victim's head.  But you have to understand how reckless and serious your offending was.              You may not have intended to do more than give your victim a terrible scare but two inches the wrong way and the two of you could have been before this court, as I have commented previously, on, at the very least, a manslaughter charge.  You have brought yourselves both to the edge of the precipice.  Mr Cooke, when you say you do not want to end up like Mr Likiardopoulos and John, you came within a whisker of ending up in precisely the same situation.  Do you understand that?  All right.  As I said, you have both got families who continue to support you and you are very important members in your family constellations. 

37It was urged upon me that I should sentence you, Mr Cooke, to a term of imprisonment which then encompassed the amount of time that you had spent in custody.  I do not think that was quite enough but I do think that you have spent enough time in gaol.  And so ultimately, I am going to sentence you to a term of imprisonment of 423 days.  You, Mr Likiardopoulos, were a bit unlucky because you got let out on bail.  I do need to sentence you to a term of imprisonment so that you are not going to be released today.  That is simply because you have not done enough time and I do need to sentence you to a term of imprisonment which does reflect the seriousness of your offending. 

38There is some difference between you.  You have a much more serious prior criminal history, Mr Cooke.  As against that, Mr Likiardopoulos, you offended whilst you were on bail and ended up in gaol again.  Whilst I am prepared to find that both of you have reasonable prospects for rehabilitation, my view insofar as you are concerned, Mr Likiardopoulos, is somewhat less hopeful in your case because you reoffended, as I said, whilst on bail.  As against that, you have taken up employment.  I note that neither of you have particularly impressive employment histories and that is something that you really need to attend to in the future. 

39

Your brother, Matthew, Mr Cooke, is a concreter and he has offered you work on your release.  I received a reference in relation to you as well,

Mr Likiardopoulos, with work in a building firm.  So I hope you understand what the reasons for my sentencing you in this way are.  The story is not over when you leave gaol.  I am going to place each of you on a two year Community Corrections Order.  What that means is whilst you are on that order, if you offend in any way, you will be brought back before me on the breach.  So you really have to keep your noses clean for the two years that you are on the Community Corrections Order. 

40That order is also going to contain a condition for judicial monitoring.  That is, you are going to come back in front of the court and I am going to be keeping track of your progress.  Do you understand?  Can you stand up please? 

41Mr Likiardopoulos, in relation to Charge 1, I am sentencing you to ten months' imprisonment, following which you will be released on a Community Corrections Order for two years. 

42Mr Cooke, I am sentencing you to 422 days imprisonment and I am releasing you on a Community Corrections Order for a period of two years. 

43I relation - I would just like some help here, Mr Prosecutor.  In relation to the possession charge?

44MR LIVITSANOS:  Yes, Your Honour. 

45HER HONOUR:  I can sentence ‑ ‑ ‑

46MR LIVITSANOS:  Aggregate, yes.

47HER HONOUR:  I will make that as part of an aggregate sentence, in relation to Charges 1 and 2, insofar as Mr Likiardopoulos' sentence is concerned.

48MR LIVITSANOS:  As Your Honour pleases. 

49HER HONOUR:  Have a seat.  Before you have a seat, I need to explain to each of you what the core conditions, the fundamental conditions, of the Community Corrections Order are.  There is going to be special conditions in place as well.  First, whilst on the order you must not commit another crime or offence punishable by imprisonment, either inside or outside Victoria.  All right?  So the tiniest theft will be a breach of the order.  Got that?  Each of you, once you are placed on the order, must report to the Office of Corrections within two working days. 

50With you, Mr Cooke, that means by Monday.  With you, Mr Likiardopoulos, that means within two working days of you being released from prison.  Whilst on the order you must report to and receive visits from the Community Corrections Office.  Neither of you may leave Victoria without the permission of the Community Corrections Officer and you must inform the Community Corrections Officer of any change of address or employment within 48 hours of that change.  All right? 

51In relation to each of you, I am going to order that you each attend for assessment and treatment for mental health problems.  Basically what that means is you will be told to go and see your GP, get a mental health plan and attend on a psychologist.  I am going to order that each of you be assessed and treated for drug problems.  In fact, drug and alcohol problems, in relation to each of you.  All right?  I am going to order judicial monitoring every six months, which means you will be brought back before the court so I can see how you are going. 

52Do you understand now, Mr Cooke?  That means your first judicial monitoring would be on 26 September 2014.  In terms of the sentence that I have imposed, I declare that in your case, Mr Likiardopoulos, you have 162 days of that sentence has already been served by way of pre-sentence detention.  In relation to you, Mr Cooke, 423 days of that sentence has been served by way of pre-sentence detention.  All right?  So I think that is all.   I suppose because it is a combination I have to declare s.6AAA?

53MR LIVITSANOS:  Your Honour does.  Can I just go back before Your Honour does that and just a query in relation to CCOs to see if Your Honour is imposing the unpaid community work hours in relation to both of the accused?

54HER HONOUR:  Yes. 

55MR LIVITSANOS:  There's that and ‑ ‑ ‑

56HER HONOUR:  I should do that.

57MR LIVITSANOS:  There's that and before Your Honour continues also, 26 September 2014 in fact might be a (indistinct) for both of them.  It might very well be we're in - we've got April, May, June, July, August and most of September so another six months with 162 days, that's four months.  I think that would take into account the ten months, Your Honour. 

58HER HONOUR:  All right.  I'll put that down for both of you.  So let me just have a look.

59MR LIVITSANOS:  It's whether or not - I know that he might have, I mean literally, just attended at Corrections that, Your Honour, given that Mr Cooke is coming back on that day, in my submission it probably -  even if he has only just attended and started on the CCO, I think it might have some merit in bringing him back before Your Honour.  It's a matter ‑ ‑ ‑

60HER HONOUR:  All right.  I'll make the first - because he's done about five months.

61MR LIVITSANOS:  Correct.

62HER HONOUR:  And another five months, we're in March so that - no, that'll take him up to October.  No, beg your pardon. 

63MR LIVITSANOS:  August.

64HER HONOUR:  August.

65MR LIVITSANOS:  Yes.  The September date I think he will be released, Your Honour.

66HER HONOUR:  He will have been released so I will have your first judicial monitoring date.  You'll be released in August, all right?  So you've just got a few months to go which I know is difficult but the time that you've done inside was simply not enough and, in my view, the seriousness of the offending is such that just releasing you on a Community Corrections Order is simply not possible in your case.  All right?  I am going to order that each of you undertake 200 hours of unpaid community work. 

67When you get out of gaol, Mr Likiardopoulos, or both of you, do not think this is all over if you have been on a Community Corrections Order.  The two of you have absolutely got to abide by the conditions of the order, and try and use the order.  Mr Cooke, you know, you have got plans for turning your life around.  You can use a Community Corrections Order to do that.  All right?  A lot of the problems - I mean, you have been very insightful in talking about the anger that you have experienced in your life and you have decided that you don't want to live like that anymore.  Getting off drugs is fundamental to that but you're going to need some help with the anger as well. 

68So use both those sessions.  I don't know of any young bloke under the sun, under the age of 30, who enjoys going to therapy but I urge both of you, rather than regarding the therapy as a chore, and incredibly embarrassing and terribly annoying, to actually use it, to actually talk about the way that you have felt about things, about the problems that you can have in the sort of background family situation both of you come from.  You've got a lot of people in your life that you love very much who get into a lot of trouble, am I right, who are constantly in trouble and there's lots of loyalty, there's lot of "Come on, you have to come and do this with me.  This is a family honour thing".

69It's really hard to disentangle yourself from that but you're both going to have to.  If you're going to have the sorts of lives that you want to have, if you want your partners not to end up in the depressive state that each of your mothers have, you have to stay out of trouble and you're going to have to work out strategies of keeping up relationships with your family and not involving yourself in their offending at the same time.         You are both involved with people that you love very much who abuse alcohol and abuse drugs, aren't you?  And each of you are going to go back into situations where there are people like that who are going to be floating in and out of your life all the time.  Am I right?  Is that right?  That is going to be a feature of your life.  Somehow you are going to have to learn how to stand apart from that and that is going to be very hard for you because these are people that you love and that you feel a lot of loyalty to.  So use the therapy that you are going to get, by working out strategies of how to do that.

70I am not saying it is possible for you to go home and cut ties with everybody who uses drugs and everybody who offends.  I just do not think that is possible in the family situations of either of you.  But it is possible for you to live in that environment and not get into further trouble.  And particularly for your own happiness; not to engage in using drugs that ultimately just make you feel black and full of despair and full of anger because this does not work as a way of life.  It just ends up making you unhappy.

71

Thank you, we'll prepare the paperwork.  Pursuant to s.6AAA I declare that had you not pleaded guilty I would have sentenced you, Mr Likiardopoulos, to three years' imprisonment with an 18 month minimum, and you,

Mr Cooke, to three years imprisonment with a two year minimum.  So you have done very well by pleading.  Have a seat, thank you. 

72MR LIVITSANOS:  The ancillary orders, Your Honour.

73HER HONOUR:  Yes, I can see those.  Thank you very much.  Sorry, Mr Likiardopoulos, I've signed where you're supposed to sign but I've crossed that out so.  Gentlemen, I wish you both well.  You blokes have really - as I said, the support you've given to your families over the years has been quite remarkable for such young men.  It means you've got something very good inside each of you and I hope that the order goes well and that when I see you in September I hear nothing but glowing reports.  What do you think the chances of that happening are?  Mr Cooke?  Do you reckon?  Could happen?  What about you, Mr Likiardopoulos? 

74PRISONER:  Yep.

75HER HONOUR:  All right.  Good luck to the both of you.  Thank you very much.

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