Director of Public Prosecutions v Chamma

[2020] VCC 374

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA Revised
Not Restricted
Suitable for Publication

AT MELBOURNE
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION

CR 20-00267
CR 19-02016

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

v

OSMAN CHAMMA
AMIR EL HOULI

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JUDGE:	HER HONOUR JUDGE GAYNOR
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne
DATE OF HEARING:	20 March 2020
DATE OF SENTENCE:	20 March 2020
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Chamma & Anor
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2020] VCC 374

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:
Catchwords:
Legislation Cited:
Cases Cited:
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APPEARANCES:	Counsel	Solicitors
For the Director of Public Prosecutions	Mr M. Cookson	Office of Public Prosecutions
For Offender Chamma	Mr C. Pearson	Valos Black & Associates
For Offender El Houli	Mr W. Barker	Stary Norton Halphen Criminal Lawyers

HER HONOUR:

1Amir El Houli and Osman Chamma, you have each pleaded before me to offending as follows.  You, Amir El Houli, have pleaded guilty to five charges of theft, one charge of damaging property.

2You, Osman Chamma, have pleaded guilty to six charges of theft, four charges of damaging property and one charge of conduct endangering persons.

3You, Amir El Houli, have also pleaded guilty to a number of summary charges, being committing an indictable offence whilst on bail, dangerous driving, uttering threatening words and going equipped to steal. You, Osman Chamma, also pleaded guilty to the summary charge of trespass.

4You have both admitted prior convictions. The facts underlying your offending are as follows. Charge 1 relates to the use and possession by you,
Amir El Houli, of a Mercedes Benz which was stolen from PrixCar Services in Horsburgh Drive, Altona North, sometime on 5 May 2019 by unknown offenders. The car was located by police on 14 May 2019 in Campbellfield, where it was covered in a black vinyl wrap, and your fingerprints were discovered on the inside and outside of the driver's window.  The charge of theft of motor vehicle is based on unlawful use by you.

5Charge 2 relates to a number of incidents that occurred at the Prix Motors in Altona North on 9 July 2019, involving each of you.  Firstly, the two of you arrived at those premises driving in a Toyota HiLux 2018, which was stolen from its owner sometime between 17 and 18 June 2019.  You are charged in relation to theft of that Toyota HiLux by driving in it knowing it was stolen.

6In any event, you arrived at the caryard at about 6.30 am.  You drove to the perimeter and you gained entrance to the caryard by using bolt cutters to cut through the cyclone fence surrounding the yard.  This relates to the summary charge to which you pleaded guilty, Mr El Houli – that is the charge of going equipped to steal – and relates to the summary charge to which you pleaded guilty, Mr Chamma – that is the charge of trespass.

7Once you got inside you put into action what the prosecution says, and which you have effectively agreed to, was a plan to steal vehicles from the business.  I should add that the Prix Motors dealt in luxury cars and that the car which was the subject of Charge 1 – involving you, Mr El Houli – had a value of $334,000 and was a Mercedes Benz.

8Once inside you, Mr El Houli, got inside a black BMW coupe valued at $273,000.  You, Mr Chamma, took possession of a white Mercedes Benz worth $92,000.  You drove this car for a while before you got out and then took possession of another black BMW sedan valued at $70,900.  The use by you two in relation to those three cars underlies Charges 3, 4 and 5 on the indictment.  Even though you were not in the cars together the fact is that you stole those cars and used them as part of an agreement, therefore you are charged and have pleaded guilty on a statutory complicity basis.  Charge 6 is a charge of damaging property which relates to actions by you, Mr El Houli.  You had arrived together, the plan, it would seem, being that one of you would break out by using a car to ram the gates which would result in one damaged car going through, being driven by you, Mr El Houli, and then followed by you, Mr Chamma, in an undamaged car.  It should be added that at the time you arrived at the caryard staff were already present.  Once you got in the gates were still locked and that was the only way you could get out.  In an attempt to exit the compound, you, Mr El Houli, drove the BMW into the steel exit gate.  You reversed and drove the BMW at a fast rate, into the gate, in order to get away, and you did this about 11 times; destroying the front end of the BMW and causing significant damage to the gate.

9Employees of PrixCar Services moved a company car behind where you were to prevent you from escaping, and also parked a car beside you to protect the gate.  An employee approached the front passenger side of the BMW that you were driving even though you continued to keep ramming it into the steel gate.  You then, as employees approached, reversed the BMW into a Nissan Patrol parked nearby and a number of employees then approached you.  Your actions in the way you drove - continuing to ram forward into the gate and then backing into the Nissan Patrol while employees approached - underlies the summary charge of dangerous driving.  You then got out of the BMW and you were held down and detained by other PrixCar Services employees – one of them, a man named David Barley, whom apparently you knew, you addressed by looking at him and saying, 'You're dead, Dave.  You're dead'.  This underlies related Summary Charge 20; using threatening language in public.

10Police arrived and arrested you a short time later.  The damage caused to the BMW by your actions was worth $157,583 and the damage to the gate was worth $37,928.  On the bonnet of the black BMW police found your New York Yankees hat – photographs of which I have seen - which contained a phone charger, cigarettes, and what is called a crimp terminal, and that is an item that enables cars to be taken out of a mode, which is what happens in caryards, that limits the capacity of a car to drive at more 35 kilometres per hour so it can be driven beyond speed.  I was informed by both your counsel and Mr Chamma's counsel that neither of you knew about this, that nobody had it – but it was found in your cap.

11In any event, at the time of this offending you were on bail for other criminal matters actually relating to the same caryard, and this underlies the summary charge of committing an indicatable offence whilst on bail.

12Charges 7 and 8 relate to you, Mr Chamma - they being charges of damaging property, that is, other cars in the caryard.  So while Mr El Houli was trying to break through the gate with the BMW you drove the other black BMW sedan towards the front gate, towards where Mr El Houli was.  You stopped for about 16 seconds and then you reversed and drove off, back into the compound.  You continued driving the BMW round the storage yard, where you collided with a white Chevrolet Camaro, causing damage to the left-hand side and rear bumper of that car totalling $3,285.95, and damage to the left hand side of the front bumper of the BMW.  That damage was worth $8,635.40 and that underlies Charges 7 and 8 on the indictment.

13You dumped the black BMW within the storage yard, being able to avoid detection because police attention was on Mr El Houli at that stage.  Charges 9 and 10 relate to use by you then of two other cars in the yard; being another BMW and a Volkswagen.  You gained entry to a blue BMW sedan valued at $70,900, hiding in the boot for a period of time, and then made your way through the inside of the car to the driver's seat of that car and began driving it round the compound.  You caused damage to the interior of the sedan worth $159.00 when you got from the boot into the driver's section of the car.  You then parked the blue BMW in front of a blue Volkswagen, getting inside that car – which was valued at $57,000 – and it was situated in the middle of three rows of cars.  Charges 11 and 12 are charges of damaging property – they being damage to the Volkswagen and then an Alfa Romeo.

14Police then, together with PrixCar employees, approached you while you were in the Volkswagen in order to apprehend you.  You then locked the doors of the car and revved its engine, trying to accelerate forward in the direction of one of the police, Constable Payne.  On a number of occasions, you were told to get out of the car, but you did not do this, then reversed the Volkswagen back into a blue parked Alfa Romeo, which was about half a metre away.  When you did this you narrowly missed three police members.  You then turned the steering wheel and tyres in the direction towards Constable Payne, who saw the vehicle lunging towards him, and it would appear, in fear of his life, he used his baton to strike the driver's side of the window of the car, causing it to smash.  You then jumped into the back of the car and then were arrested.

15You caused damage to the rear of the Volkswagen Golf, together with the broken windows, totalling $6,969.90, and you caused $4,455 worth of damage to the Alfa Romeo.

16The two of you were taken to the Altona North police station where, essentially, you provided no comment answers to records of interview.  Ultimately both of you entered pleas before any contested committals took place.  Your plea,
Mr El Houli, resolved at a very early stage.  Your plea, Mr Chamma, resolved a little later, on a contested committal date, but I accept that that committal was in relation to one charge only and did settle before any witnesses were called.

17The maximum penalties are as follows.  For theft, 10 years' imprisonment; for damaging property, 10 years' imprisonment; for conduct endangering persons, five years' imprisonment; for going equipped to steal, two years' imprisonment; for trespass, 25 penalty units or six months' imprisonment; for dangerous driving, 240 penalty units or two years' imprisonment or both; for using threatening language in public, 10 penalty units or two months' imprisonment; for committing an indictable offence whilst on bail, 30 penalty units or three months' imprisonment.  On the charge of dangerous driving there is a mandatory licence cancellation and driver disqualification for no less than six months, and, Mr Prosecutor, there is also a mandatory loss of licence for theft of motor vehicle, is there not?  Of 12 months I understood?

18MR COOKSON:  I do recall that that is the case, so I'll investigate whether it's 12 months or not, Your Honour.

19HER HONOUR:  I think it might be.

20MR BARKER:  I wonder if I can help.  It's a mandatory loss but there's no term prescribed.

21HER HONOUR:  Okay.  Then it's a – are you sure?

22MR BARKER:  We can check it, but as I understand it it's a ‑ ‑ ‑ 

23HER HONOUR:  I think you better check, because I actually think it's more than that.  All right.  I now turn to the personal circumstances of each you - beginning with you, Mr El Houli.  You are now 21 years of age. 

24HER HONOUR: Your parents came from Lebanon and you are the third youngest of eight children.  Your parents separated when you were about five.  I was informed you are very close to your mother, who has essentially raised all eight children, although your father has been of financial support, and since he runs a demolition yard and company since the age of 14 you have been working there on an on-and-off basis.  He is apparently an extremely critical man and you have difficulties in terms of your relationship with him.  You have one older brother who has been in criminal trouble.  Your oldest brother owns his own demolition company.  You have another brother, Joseph, who is three years older than you, who was overseas in Ecuador for some time.  He has just returned and apparently was in trouble with authorities in Ecuador for reasons which were not fully explained.  In any event, it appears that you have a good relationship with all your family.  None of your sisters have been in any trouble.

25You were a person who never did much at school.  You described yourself as a class clown and you left school in about Year 9.  You did some work for your father, but that was not successful, and the problem was that you began using drugs from your mid-teens and were using ice fairly regularly from the age of 17.  Ice addiction, or methylamphetamine addiction, occurred after you started off using this drug on a party basis, to the point where you were using it at about the rate of about a gram a day.  That is a very large amount of this drug to be using.  It also costs a lot of money.

26I was instructed that the way this offending came about was that you were at the Crown Casino that evening with friends.  As a result of the behaviour of one of the other people you were with you were thrown out.  You returned to the house with other friends.  There you took Xanax on top of the methamphetamine you had been using that night and you and Mr Chamma decided you were going to go to the caryard.  This was a return visit for you, as I have said.  You were on bail for offences relating to that caryard previously.

27It would seem that somehow a group of persons, including you, had got the idea that stealing from this caryard was going to prove profitable for you.  I was informed by your counsel that people you knew had done it successfully previously.  You had attended there on another occasion.  This appears to be all around the cost of your drug use.

28In any event you attended there, as I said, and behaved in the way that I have described.  You have been held in custody ever since your arrest.

29It appears that you are suffering some aspects of a post-traumatic stress disorder due to an accident where a friend was killed some years ago, but overall, as far as I can see from the psychological material, and from what was presented by your counsel, the main problem appears to be that from a fairly early age you have been involved in very heavy drug use and you have offended in relation to that drug use.  For a 21-year-old you have a very extensive prior criminal history.  This goes back to 2016, when you were dealt with for motor vehicle theft and possession of methamphetamine, for which you were placed on probation by the Children's Court, then in June of 2017 you were dealt with for driving offences, for armed robbery, for reckless conduct endangering life, car theft, unlicensed driving, and you were placed on a CCO.

30On 11 December 2018 you were dealt with for breach of a community corrections order and for charges of unlicensed driving, fail to answer bail, handling stolen goods, a prohibited person possessing a firearm, possession of methamphetamine, motor car theft and reckless conduct endangering serious injury, then again, on 27 February 2019, you were dealt with for breach of community corrections order.  Again, five charges of motor vehicle theft, theft, tampering with motor vehicle, threat to inflict injury, possession of a drug of dependence, unlawful assault, dealing with proceeds of crime, obtaining financial advantage by deception, possession of ice, cocaine and cannabis, handling stolen goods.  You were placed on a further community corrections order.  You had been on an order only for a period of three months when you committed the offending which has brought you before the court.

31The situation is that you continue to enjoy the support of your family; most of whom attended court today.  I was informed you are particularly reliant upon your brother, Joseph, who you see as a mentor, and the plan is that once you leave gaol you will reside with Joseph and his wife and all of you will work for your older brother at his demolition business.  The plan is that you will be strictly supervised by Joseph.  It would appear that when you have been in gaol – and what I should say is some of those community correction orders were accompanied by periods of imprisonment – you are able to give up drugs, but when you get out you run into associates and relapse very quickly back into drug use and offend in the way that you have.

32It was submitted to me that I should take into account your early plea of guilty, that I should take into account your youth - you are right at the bottom of the age group of what is classified as a youthful offender – that rehabilitation still is a live principle for this court to take into account, and indeed it was submitted that I should deal with you by way of a combination; that is a term of imprisonment and then release on community corrections order.  For reasons that I will outline later I do not accept that submission, and you will be receiving a term of imprisonment which will involve a head term and a minimum term.

33I now turn to you, Mr Chamma.  You are now 23 years of age.  You were 22 at the time of this offending.  You are the second youngest of eight children.  You were a friend of Joseph El Houli and that is how you know Amir El Houli.  You are the youngest son in your family.  You were apparently very close to your father, who was a mechanic.  He died very suddenly of infection following what was considered to be fairly minor keyhole surgery.  By this stage you had left school at Year 10 and undertaken a mechanic's apprenticeship, which you completed.  You were one year into that apprenticeship when your father died.  It appears your older brothers have all been involved in criminal offending, although the two eldest have managed to turn their lives around.  There was a great deal of tension between you and your older brothers, who saw you as being favoured by your father; you and your father sharing a love of cars.  In any event, your mother now looks after those children who are still at home including your younger sister, who has a learning difficulty.

34From about the age of 18 you plunged into what would have to be called polysubstance abuse.  You have abused ecstasy, cannabis, GHB, and from the age of 19 methylamphetamine has been a big problem for you – almost daily use – and you told psychologist Carla Lechner, whose report was tendered on the plea, that at times you would just go on binges of using between 1 to 3 grams per day.  You have also used cocaine, ketamine and LSD.

35You also have a very problematic criminal history beginning in March of 2017, when you were gaoled for 31 days and released on a community corrections order for possession of methamphetamine and morphine, dangerous driving, committing an indictable offence on bail, driving offences and car theft, then on 12 October 2017 there was a consolidation of 38 charges involving four charges of motor car theft, other thefts, tampering with a motor vehicle, retention of stolen goods, driving whilst disqualified and dangerous driving.  You were sentenced to – ultimately after appeal – 11 months' imprisonment and then released on a community corrections order.

36On 26 August you were dealt with for two charges of theft of motor vehicle, threatening serious injury and theft.  You were sentenced to four months' imprisonment and on 10 April in 2019 you were dealt with for breaches of the community corrections order and sentenced to 363 days imprisonment.  You got out of gaol about six weeks before committing these offences.

37I am repeating what I said on the plea, but it is worth saying again.  It is quite clear that in the case of both of you, despite the chances that the courts have given you to reform and to seek treatment for your drug habits, this has been of no use whatsoever.  You continued, both of you, to engage in large scale drug use.  You have engaged in offending which has become more and more serious.  You have engaged in offending which has brought you, because of its seriousness, for the first time to the County Court.  You had both decided that you were going to – and you have got a history of this – fund your drug habits by stealing cars and on selling, and I accept that what you decided to do on that day involved some degree of planning, involved potential theft of hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of expensive cars, and that this was seriously unlawful offending, and offending which is taking you into what must be regarded almost the professional sphere.

38I do not accept, despite the submissions of each of your counsel, that because of your youth, because of your good families – and each of you has got job prospects.  You, Mr Chamma; I got a reference from a former teacher as to what a talented mechanic you are, and you have work with a brother in law as a mechanic, but despite these future prospects your offending is far too serious to be dealt with by way of a combination.  You have both been given multiple chances in the past and all you have done is go on to offend in the same way - using drugs, stealing cars – only this time they were a lot more expensive and the offending was a lot more organised.

39I have decided that there is little difference between the culpability of each of you.  You are both youthful offenders, you were both involved in this enterprise.  There might have been greater unlawful use of cars and damage of cars by you, Mr Chamma, but you, Mr El Houli, caused a great deal more damage and you have an extra charge, Mr El Houli, of theft of a very expensive motor vehicle, plus you had been to those premises before.  You were on bail for offending there.  Mr El Houli, ultimately you have got worse prior convictions than Mr Chamma, but you, Mr Chamma, had only been out of gaol for six weeks.  You, Mr El Houli, had been on your community corrections order for three months and on bail again for offending against the same premises.  Again, each of you have got similar family backgrounds, strong family support, work eventually from family members.  Rehabilitation, I accept, is still important for each of you.  Can I say, if the two of you presented to this court as older than you are you would be getting considerably more gaol than what I have decided is appropriate today.

40Each of you has got very concerning similar prior convictions involving drug use and motor car theft; they dominate your priors.  There has been an escalation, as I have said.  In my view the principles of general deterrence, specific deterrence and protection of the community are such that I have decided to sentence you as follows.

41I will start with you, Mr El Houli.  On Charge 1; 12 months' imprisonment.

42On Charge 2; four months' imprisonment.

43On Charges 3, 4, 5 and 6; 12 months' imprisonment each.

44On Charge 6; 16 months' imprisonment.

45On Summary Charge 4; three months' imprisonment.

46On Summary Charge 17; three months' imprisonment.

47On Summary Charge 19; six months' imprisonment.

48On Summary Charge 20; two months' imprisonment.

49The base sentence will be the sentence imposed on Charge 6; 16 months' imprisonment.  Four months of the sentences imposed on Charges 1, 3, 4 and 5, two months of the sentence imposed on Summary Charge 19, one month of the sentences imposed on Summary Charges 4 and 17, will be served cumulatively to the sentence imposed on Charge 6, as well as one month of the sentence imposed on Charge 2 on the indictment.

50This gives a total effective sentence of three years and one month and I order that you serve 20 months before becoming eligible for parole.  What is the PSD, please?

51MR BARKER:  Two hundred and fifty-five days.

52HER HONOUR:  I declare that 255 days of this sentence have already been served by way of pre-sentence detention.

53Pursuant to s.6AAA I declare that had you not pleaded guilty I would have sentenced you to a term of imprisonment of four years and eight months and ordered that you serve a minimum term of three years.

54Mr Chamma.  On Charge 3 you are sentenced to 12 months' imprisonment.

55On Charge 4 you are sentenced to 12 months' imprisonment.

56On Charge 5 you are sentenced to 12 months' imprisonment.

57On Charge 7 you are sentenced to six months' imprisonment.

58On Charge 8 you are sentenced to six months' imprisonment.

59On Charge 9 you are sentenced to 10 months' imprisonment.

60On Charge 10 you are sentenced to six months' imprisonment.

61On Charge 11 you are sentenced to four months' imprisonment.

62On Charge 12 you are sentenced to four months' imprisonment.

63On Charge 13 you are sentenced to 14 months' imprisonment.

64On the summary charge of trespass, you are sentenced to one month imprisonment.  Was there also a summary charge of theft?

65MR COOKSON:  No, Your Honour.  Just the one summary charge.

66HER HONOUR:  No?  Thank you.  The base sentence will be the sentence imposed on Charge 13, which is the 14 months' imprisonment.  I order that four months of the sentence imposed on Charges 3, 4 and 5, two months of the sentences imposed on Charges 7, 8 and 10, three months of the sentence on Charge 9 and one month each of the sentences on Charges 11 and 12 be served cumulatively to the sentence imposed on Charge 13.

67That should give a total effective sentence of three years and one month and I order that you serve 20 months before becoming eligible for parole.  Again, what was the ‑ ‑ ‑ 

68MR COOKSON:  Two five five.

69HER HONOUR:  I declare that 255 days of this sentence have already been served by way of pre-sentence detention.

70Pursuant to s.6AAA I declare that had you not pleaded guilty I would have sentenced you to a term of imprisonment – what did I say it was?  Four years and ‑ ‑ ‑ 

71MR COOKSON:  Eight months.

72HER HONOUR:  Four years and eight months and ‑ ‑ ‑ 

73MR COOKSON:  Three years non-parole period.

74HER HONOUR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ ordered that you serve a minimum term of three years.  Thank you.

75MR PEARSON:  Your Honour pleases.

76MR BARKER:  Your Honour pleases.

77HER HONOUR:  Thank you very much.

78MR COOKSON:  The only other matters, Your Honour, being compensation, forfeiture and licence orders.

79HER HONOUR:  All right.  Have I got those, or have you got those?

80MR COOKSON:  I understand they've all been lodged with the court.  The licence wouldn't have been but forfeiture and ‑ ‑ ‑ 

81HER HONOUR:  Yes.  Now, in relation to what – how much is it?

82MR COOKSON:  Is Your Honour referring to the licence?

83HER HONOUR:  Licence.  If a theft of motor ‑ ‑ ‑ 

84MR COOKSON:  So it's 89(4).  It is compulsory upon conviction and discretionary on non-conviction - so compulsory here, of course.  It is a duration matter for the court.  It defaults to three months if the court does not elect a duration, so it's a matter for Your Honour about the appropriate level, and Your Honour of course does have discretion regarding, for example, the charge of endangering serious injury.

85HER HONOUR:  The hard thing is that they're each going to need their licences when they get out.  It's the sort of work they engage in.  I'm not trying to reward them, but I'd like to see them get jobs.  I knew it was compulsory in relation to car theft.

86MR COOKSON:  Yes.  And also, for the drive disqualified as well, which ‑ ‑ ‑ 

87HER HONOUR:  Well, the drive whilst disqualified for Mr El Houli is ‑ ‑ ‑ 

88MR COOKSON:  Sorry, dangerous drive.

89HER HONOUR:  Dangerous driving.

90MR COOKSON:  I'm getting my d's confused.

91HER HONOUR:  It's six months for Mr El Houli.

92MR COOKSON:  Yes, at least.

93HER HONOUR:  And I have to do it in relation to each of Charges 3 - well, in the case of Mr Chamma; Charges 3, 4, 5 – how many thefts are there?  So one, three, four, five for Mr El Houli and then for Mr Chamma how many is it?  It's ‑ ‑ ‑ 

94MR COOKSON:  Pardon me, Your Honour?

95HER HONOUR:  And for the conduct endangering?

96MR COOKSON:  Not necessarily for the conduct endangering.

97HER HONOUR:  I know it's discretionary.

98MR COOKSON:  Though it is discretionary.  But if Your Honour was to add that then, yes, that as well.

99HER HONOUR:  All right.  Look, in relation to each of the – you need to be quiet, gentlemen, before I'm finished, all right?  I've still got to decide how much you lose your licences for.  All right.  Look, I'm taking into account their ages and the fact that they'll need their licences, you know?  I'm going to limit it to 12 months.

100MR COOKSON:  As Your Honour pleases.

101HER HONOUR:  So it'll be – and it could be a lot more, all right?  You could be looking at three or four years, gentlemen.  What I'll do is I'll make it 12 months in relation to the motor car theft but they all run concurrently, the loss of licence, and the dangerous driving will be – I'll leave that at six months.  That can run concurrently as well.  All right?

102MR COOKSON:  As Your Honour pleases.

103HER HONOUR:  Thank you.

104MR COOKSON:  And just to clarify, it's also nine and 10 on Chamma.  He's got (indistinct).

105HER HONOUR:  Yes, I know that.  So 12 months to nine and 10 for
Mr Chamma but they all run concurrently, so the total effect is 12 months.  All right.  Now ‑ ‑ ‑ 

106MR PEARSON:  I'm not sure I heard Your Honour pronounce sentence in relation to Charge 2 for Mr Chamma?

107HER HONOUR:  I didn't think Mr Chamma was charged in relation to Charge 2?  I know I've been – he was only – no, only Mr – he was.

108MR PEARSON:  That's the ‑ ‑ ‑ 

109HER HONOUR:  The HiLux.

110MR PEARSON:  Yes.

111MR PEARSON:  Yes, you're right.  Okay.  Well, look, in relation to that he also gets – thanks, Gemma, you were right.  So he'll get the same as El Houli.  That'll be ‑ ‑ ‑ 

112MR COOKSON:  Four months, Your Honour.

113HER HONOUR:  Four months.

114MR COOKSON:  No order for cumulation in respect of that one?

115HER HONOUR:  No, I won't, because I want the cumulation to be the same.  All right?  Thank you very much, my mistake.  Thank you for your assistance.

116OFFENDER CHAMMA:  Excuse me, Your Honour?

117HER HONOUR:  All right, now what about the orders?

118OFFENDER CHAMMA:  Excuse me, Your Honour?

119HER HONOUR:  Yes?

120OFFENDER CHAMMA:  How long did I cop all up?  Just ‑ ‑ ‑ 

121HER HONOUR:  You've copped three years and one month and you've got to serve 20 months before you're out, and you've got 255 days that you've already served.  You got it?

122OFFENDER CHAMMA:  Yeah, Your Honour.  Thank you.

123HER HONOUR:  Yes.  Okay, good.  Well, look, your barristers will talk to you, all right?  All right, thank you.  Excuse me.  No, you don't talk to your family members while you're in court.  Just can't have that.  All right.  Now, the orders?  So there's a forfeiture order and then there's the – can you just keep - okay? – and then I've got the compensation order.  So there's a – so what's the date today again?

124MR COOKSON:  20th, Your Honour.

125HER HONOUR:  So I'm ordering that Mr El Houli pays compensation in the sum of $195,511.40 and that Mr Chamma pay compensation in the sum of $23,505.24.

126MR COOKSON:  As Your Honour pleases.

127HER HONOUR:  All right, there you go.

128MR COOKSON:  And forfeiture order made I assume, Your Honour?

129HER HONOUR:  Yes, I've signed the forfeiture order.

130MR COOKSON:  Thank you, Your Honour.

131HER HONOUR:  All right, three you go.  Is there anything else I need to attend to?

132MR COOKSON:  Not from my side, Your Honour.

133HER HONOUR:  Is that everything, gentlemen?

134MR PEARSON:  Yes, Your Honour.

135MR BARKER:  Yes, Your Honour.

136HER HONOUR:  It adds up to 37 months?

137MR BARKER:  I didn't get all the orders for cumulation, so I was going to speak to Your Honour's associate after ‑ ‑ ‑ 

138HER HONOUR:  Mr Cookson, did you?

139MR COOKSON:  I've written them all down.  I haven't independently added ‑ ‑ ‑ 

140HER HONOUR:  So I just want to check, because I just don't want to have to come back after ‑ ‑ ‑ 

141MR BARKER:  I just couldn't keep – it's my fault, I just couldn't keep up.

142HER HONOUR:  ‑ ‑ ‑ to find that my maths is wrong, but with Mr El Houli the base sentence is 16 months.  Four months cumulative on Charges 1, 3, 4 and 5 – so that's another 16 months – that's 32.  Two months on Summary Charge 19, that's 34, and then one month cumulative on Charge 2 and Summary Charges 4 and 17.  All right, so that's 34 and that should make 37.  So you've got 16 plus 16 is 32, plus two is 34 plus three is 37.  All right?

143MR PEARSON:  Mr Chamma, Your Honour, does add up, provided that Your Honour says that the summary charge – the one month that Your Honour gave on the summary charge for trespass, that's concurrent.

144HER HONOUR:  That's concurrent.

145MR PEARSON:  Yes.

146HER HONOUR:  And so is the charge imposed on charge - just to make that clear - because one of them I had to say concurrent.  Was it Mr Chamma or Mr ‑ ‑ ‑ 

147MR COOKSON:  Your Honour added in Charge 2 for Mr Chamma ‑ ‑ ‑ 

148HER HONOUR:  Yes.

149MR COOKSON:  ‑ ‑ ‑ for four months, and that one needed to be concurrent for it to be 37 months.

150HER HONOUR:  Yes, but I have to declare that – there's one of them where I actually have to declare it's concurrent rather than just it be taken because of the – anyway, I declare that four months for Charge 2 and the one month for trespass is concurrent with all other sentences.

151MR COOKSON:  As Your Honour pleases.

152MR PEARSON:  Yes, (indistinct words).

153MR BARKER:  And I now agree that it equals 37 now that I got those in.

154HER HONOUR:  Okay.  And look, Mr Cookson, there's a little inequality in terms of my not including – doing that – but I want them to have the same for the various reasons that I've given.

155MR COOKSON:  Yes, Your Honour.

156HER HONOUR:  All right, thank you very much.  I forgot to add that in terms of Mr Chamma I was pleased to hear that he has done a number of courses whilst in custody and is attending Narcotics Anonymous and has undertaken a number of urinalysis screens and is working as a billet, which is a trusted position.  He has been held at both Fulham and Ravenhall.

157Mr El Houli has not been so fortunate in the custody stream.  He has been at Barwon and at Port Phillip.  Has not been able to obtain work but has done a certain number of courses.

158Both, as I said, are well supported by family and visited by them.  All right, that's it.  Thank you very much.  We will adjourn to 9.30 on – okay, can you take – gentleman, please don't do this.  Take them down.  Bye.  See you later, downstairs.  Thank you.

159All right, we're all done.  Thank you very much.  I thank counsel for their assistance.

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